Best way to adjust rear coil overs for proper height on my SPF

[Jerry Clayton]

Stick around Scott--they all got mad at me for calling them posers

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

Stick around Scott--they all got mad at me for calling them posers

... and they dragged me out back and worked me over with a tire iron.

[D-CEL]

Jerry,

Not mad, disappointed. So anyone that wants a lower level of involvement is a Poser?
If they don’t want to build motors or lay paint that makes them less than you?
It must be lonely being that cool……

Patrick,

Tire Iron…..Don’t tease me..
Remember, this is your “shtick”. You happily waded into this pool and were quite unapologetic about it. MANY,MANY times, from your crazy narcissistic perch, you take shots at whomever strolls by and then cry when you get smashed like the cockroach that you are. Why is that? You may want to do a little research of NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder)
If you don’t want to get “worked over”, stop attacking. Present you opinion politely and someone (that has no history with you) might take you seriously.

[Jerry Clayton]

D-Cel

First off----what defines a lower level of involvement when someone wants 600 hp in a lightweight 90 inch car??In case you haven't ever heard, these cars had the quickest accelerate /brake 0-100-0 out there--

It is totally insane that someone would want a 600 hp dyno sheet but wouldn't think they need to balance there car out , not fot the highest level of performance, but just to have a preditable and concsistant level of response for any driving manuever that resulted from even the slightest to most extreme movement of any pedal or steering wheel or gearshift.

Your own deal is a glaring example of a very minor nature all the way up to those that have lost their lives----

Other responses clearly state examples of erratic handling and I have also received several emails requesting info as these people want a straight answer about basic handling pricipals and needed corrections without going thru the drivel that guys like you put out on the forum---

I asked ScottJ to respond to this corner weight issue as I believe he is probably the very best one on here(or anywhere else) to clearly guy guys thru this process--
My main thing has been drag racing altho I have been deeply involved in earlier circle track up to stock block IRL cars--and one thing that is a very necessary thing is for the car to be predictable to any instant reflex action taken by a driver as a primary move or a defensive/recover action--sometimes both feet in doesn't get you out of a hell hole

Isn't a Poser and a replica about the same thing???

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

D-Cel

First off----what defines a lower level of involvement...?

I think what Jason was alluding to -- and Jason can certainly correct me if I'm wrong -- but we had at least one person on this thread who took the position that "I do not want to know what my weight distribution is, nor am I inclined to adjust it, even if the existing danger is exacerbated by having a passenger; I simply do not believe it makes a difference." It is certainly that person's right to have that level of involvement (or uninvolvement), and I think that is what Jason meant. While it may not make a lick of sense to anyone else, it is what it is. Most thinking Cobra owners will now at least think about having the corner weights measured so they can at least eyeball the numbers.

[G-Pete]

I like to make it clear ones more (for the last time)

Not to corner weight and adjust make your car NOT more dangerous, it just optimize the behavior of turns.

With other words,(for an example) you're on the track and your right turns are fine and the neutral at the acceleration point but your left turns you have a under-steer and you lose time.

In many cases (after checking/adjusting - springs, shocks anti-roll bar) it leads to excessive cross weight.

My 911 was 52% on the high rate and still placed many 1st. Just like to glue in the rights and drift a little in the left.

Anyhow, it is pretty irresponsible to spread the idea a car is not safe until it's corner weight and balanced.
AGAIN all your calculations, measurements and adjustments are OUT THE WINDOW when you have a passenger on board (or you gain 10 pounds over winter, or both).


...and Jerry, call me totally insane. C-ya on the track

[ACademic]

I wonder how many of those 700hp '13 Mustangs will Ford corner-weight before they let them loose on the streets? Same for Chevrolet's ZR-1s, the Camaro ZL-1s, etc., etc.? Do the ownership manuals in these cars specify that the driver must check their corner-weighting before they drive their new toys?

The defense rests, Your Honor.

[JBCOBRA]

I am not sure of the manufacturing process in Detroit, but I would bet they at least get a baseline reading.
All the serious Cobra, Stang and Vette guys around me just take their cars straight over to
Phoenix Performance
They know their ****e ;-)

Originally Posted by ACademic

I wonder how many of those 700hp '13 Mustangs will Ford corner-weight before they let them loose on the streets? Same for Chevrolet's ZR-1s, the Camaro ZL-1s, etc., etc.? Do the ownership manuals in these cars specify that the driver must check their corner-weighting before they drive their new toys?

The defense rests, Your Honor.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by G-Pete

AGAIN all your calculations, measurements and adjustments are OUT THE WINDOW when you have a passenger on board (or you gain 10 pounds over winter, or both).

I might as well clear this up, since it is absolutely false. My cross weight percentage with me out of my Cobra is 49.9%. With me in my Cobra it is 50.1% -- a passenger that weighs less than I do (195 lbs.) only brings the values closer to the perfect 50.0% number. How is this possible? Because when I sit behind the wheel of my Cobra, my weight is distributed as follows: 47% goes to the left rear wheel, 29% goes to the left front wheel, 24% goes to the right rear wheel, and less than 1% goes to the right front wheel. The difference in cross weight by adding me behind the wheel is less than ten pounds. It is that difference that affects the cross weight percentages. I just didn't want anyone not adjusting their car because of the belief that adding a few pounds around the waistline, or even adding a passenger, would negate it. If you want to play with exact numbers, here's a nice on-line Corner Weight calculator Corner Weight Calculator

[JBCOBRA]

Only a Fool would Not corner weigh a 5, 6, 700hp, 2400lb, 90" wheelbase car.
Unless of course you never drive it.
Mine was so far off at first I could absolutely Crank right hand turns.....but lefts were tricky at best, at speed. Balancing everything made a Huge difference in the car.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by JBCOBRA

Only a Fool would Not corner weigh a 5, 6, 700hp, 2400lb, 90" wheelbase car.

In G-Pete's defense, it's possible that his corner weights are spot on. But I guess we'll never know....

[akfish]

well since we're on the subject are these any good?

Intercomp Racing 170125 - Intercomp Racing SW500 E-Z Weigh Cabled Scale Systems - Overview - SummitRacing.com

[Pman1961]

Why don't you start a new thread on "Adjusting corner balance after adding padding to duel roll bars"

dont...you cracked me up!!

[Jerry Clayton]

I think we ought to start a new thread about how and why to adjust alignment, brake balance, ride heights, and corner weights for the people that are truly interested in high performance cars and see if the moderators have a way for the Patrick haters to be blocked from seeing the posts.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

... corner weights for the people that are truly interested in high performance cars and see if the moderators have a way for the Patrick haters to be blocked from seeing the posts.

I do think that some are letting their dislike for me cloud their better judgment. And some have just boxed themselves in to a stupid position and have dug their heels in to defend it regardless of how ridiculous it may sound. Anyway, a buddy sent me a link to his favorite local shop, Albany Speed Shop, and sure 'nuf they check it all out for you for $75. I can't even fill my Cobra's tank up for that. It was nice of him to send it on, so I thought I'd post it.

Chassis Scaling Service – Yup - we do that!

[D-CEL]

Jerry,
It’s troubling that you don’t understand “Lower level of involvement” I would think such a basic and descriptive group of words was easily comprehendible. Be that as it may, here is what I meant: A Cobra owner that doesn’t want to: race, do open track events, has no interest in set up or ultimate performance. He has few tools and does not change his own oil.
He loves looking at and talking about his cool, loud car. I have many friends that fall into this category. They are not “posers” (as you say) they are car guys, just like you and me, but at a “LOWER LEVEL OF INVOLMENT”. I am not “better” than them because I enjoy those things. And I certainly don’t talk $hit about them for it.
“Patrick hater” not at all. However, his propensity to continually make snide comments and attack the members of this group makes him a target. His “shtick” draws fire, if he doesn’t like it, he should STFU. The problem is he cant and he proves it everyday.
You suggest that a group (The B-slap Patrick club) should be blocked because he is a _ick? I disagree. The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the village idiot. I would say: play nice or get out of the sand-box. But I digress…

Patrick,
First you said it was free:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Your car will do everything better if you set it up this way and it costs nothing to do it.

Then you said:

Originally Posted by patrickt

the cost for a suspension shop to set your weights runs from $75 to $200. I bet most of them would just check them and give you the print out for $50 or less.

Your last post basically says:
For $225.00 MINIMUM my local speed shop will set the ride height and c/weights….in preparation for alignment, camber, caster, toe to your specs at extra cost… So figure another $75-150.00 for rest of it.
So what do you gain from having the C/W checked? Knowledge? To do what? Adjust the car? To where? To what end? For the casual driver, what is the optimum “street cruising set-up” oh sage of ultimate performance? Is it 50/50 or is it 48/52? And what is the net effect of the change. You assume your own set-up is correct, but you haven’t provided any lap times, skip pad data, tire temps, nothing that shows you are even remotely qualified to speak on the subject. Having someone do it for you, does not make you an expert.
Should the OP spend $75 to “know” what the numbers are while he sips his latte on Sunday morning? Why? To him the car is perfect, it accelerates, stops and tracks just like it’s supposed too. Then you go on to say he should spend $300-400 and have the car “set up”..too what specs?.. Oh I get it…So he can preach his percentages to the masses on the internet? “My car has been corner weighted and that makes me better than you…” Hmmm that sounds more like a poser to me. LOL

Jason

[patrickt]

Jason, if you do it yourself, it costs you nothing (that's what I meant). That does require finding someone that will loan you the scales. But, if you don't want to do it yourself, and would like to know whether it was done by the previous owner, or just happens to be accurate, then a few bucks will answer that for you ($50 to $75, maybe even less). Depending on those numbers you can then make a decision as to whether or not you want to pay someone to adjust it for you. That's all I meant.

[vector1]

for drag racing i would think if the rear tires are pointed in the right direction and weight equally distributed on the rear tires.... would compromise braking as the weight transfer to the front would favor one tire over the other and turning wouldn't be optimal, but if drag racing is your venue.....

the thrust line could also be adjusted to be to the right, anywhere up to 6 degrees which is not much, but would help with torque steer, never to the left unless you like carving left hand turns.

if you still decide to optimize the corner or diagonal percentage it probably wouldn't make much difference, depending on the type rear limited slip setup.

jerry has done some drag racing i believe so he should be able to help and scottj has some good advice.

[Jerry Clayton]

Jason-----

If you can suggest a better word than poser that would describe someone who wants to write a check for a vehicle with 600 hp so he can brag about 600hp , I will consider retracting my use of the word---

However, these are not factory completed vehicles that meet all the highway safty rules/regs that guarantee that the vehicle driving next to me, the school bus, the suv full of kids going to the game or dance studio are counting on--

When ever a person writes the check, gets the keys and starts up one of these cars and goes on the highway system acting like they the man, that makes them a poser--now if that person behind the wheel is a highly qualified driver(and that doesn't mean someone who also has a modern vehicle with traction control, abs,etc), he will within only a few miles crash or get the suspension/brake systems fixed/balanced/aligned so that the vehicle will respond in a reasonably predictably manner--meaning--it will turn both directions with the same consistancy, accelerate and decellerate and brake in a straight line---

I am truly sorry that your slant toward this is evidently biased as against Patrick, SPF Koolaid drinker, and can't happen to me who evidently isn't qualified to see the forest for the trees--

There is no lower level of involment qualification if you have a 600 hp vehicle---

Jerry

[DanEC]

Thank God I only have 470 HP at the crank. I would hate to suffer such an inevitable fate.