Stephen Becker Automobile group Inc files suit against Shelby American Inc

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Well I feel better now. At least there is another business that people resent making a huge profit besides attaorneys.

Forgot about car salsmen.

of course! When a 'whale' is willing to pay double or triple the market price, there will be people who use their authority for personal gains. The person who paid $500K for a 50th anniversary cobra didn't have to wait 2 1/2 years for delivery.

is it shady? Yes if the profits go into individual bank accounts.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

of course! When a 'whale' is willing to pay double or triple the market price, there will be people who use their authority for personal gains. The person who paid $500K for a 50th anniversary cobra didn't have to wait 2 1/2 years for delivery.

is it shady? Yes if the profits go into individual bank accounts.

Where do your profits go? charity?

Aside from the alleged breach of contract issue if there was an arms length deal for a sale at $500k what's shady? What are the details of that transaction? Has the buyer now cried foul or is he still apparently happy with his purchase. No doubt if he filed we likely would have heard about that one.

Please enlighten us.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Where do your profits go? charity?

Aside from the alleged breach of contract issue if there was an arms length deal for a sale at $500k what's shady? What are the details of that transaction? Has the buyer now cried foul or is he still apparently happy with his purchase. No doubt if he filed we likely would have heard about that one.

Please enlighten us.

you're the lawyer. read mr. becker's new lawsuit. at Barrett Jackson auction in Jan 2015 (3 months ago), Shelby sales guys (whoever they are) sold directly to the public all or most of the 50th anniversary cars.

l dont think Shelby bosses want to open up their company book keeping in court. did all profits from the sold 50th annv cars go to company or did shelby sales people pocket money on the side? We will find out in court... or never. previous lawsuit by mr becker was settled out of court . shelby paid undisclosed amount.

only thing Shelby manufactures is a VIN number. thats what the dealers and public are paying for. the VIN number.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

you're the lawyer. read mr. becker's new lawsuit. at Barrett Jackson auction in Jan 2015 (3 months ago), Shelby sales guys (whoever they are) sold directly to the public all or most of the 50th anniversary cars.

l dont think Shelby bosses want to open up their company book keeping in court. did all profits from the sold 50th annv cars go to company or did shelby sales people pocket money on the side? We will find out in court... or never. previous lawsuit by mr becker was settled out of court . shelby paid undisclosed amount.

only thing Shelby manufactures is a VIN number. thats what the dealers and public are paying for. the VIN number.

Just perhaps you are reading the allegation literally. If SAI salesmen were selling Cobras in the back alley for themselves then I would think SAI would have it's own claim against its sales people or former sales people.

Why would SAI be afraid to show it's books in court? It should be pretty easy to establish who made the sales...i.e. SAI or its dealers.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Just perhaps you are reading the allegation literally. If SAI salesmen were selling Cobras in the back alley for themselves then I would think SAI would have it's own claim against its sales people or former sales people.

Why would SAI be afraid to show it's books in court? It should be pretty easy to establish who made the sales...i.e. SAI or its dealers.

yes the general public would like to know how much shelby pays for a kirkham roller and resells with a VIN.


i'd doubt this suit will see trial. better to settle and sell the shelby myth to the next generation

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

yes the general public would like to know how much shelby pays for a kirkham roller and resells with a VIN.

For purposes of correction / clarification, it is my understanding Kirkham supplies aluminum bodies to to SAI, not 'rollers'. By extension, that would also mean Kirkham has NO involvement whatsoever in SAI cars with fiberglass bodies.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

For purposes of correction / clarification, it is my understanding Kirkham supplies aluminum bodies to to SAI, not 'rollers'. By extension, that would also mean Kirkham has NO involvement whatsoever in SAI cars with fiberglass bodies.

David Kirkham wrote in a thread that his company makes the alum body and chassis for the 50th anniver cobras editions. (i think it's only 50 cars?)

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

For purposes of correction / clarification, it is my understanding Kirkham supplies aluminum bodies to to SAI, not 'rollers'. By extension, that would also mean Kirkham has NO involvement whatsoever in SAI cars with fiberglass bodies.

Correct. The composite cars are built by Hi Tech Automotive and supplied as rollers.

[Al G]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

yes the general public would like to know how much shelby pays for a kirkham roller and resells with a VIN.


i'd doubt this suit will see trial. better to settle and sell the shelby myth to the next generation

Do you ask the manufacturer's cost for every product you buy? Why is this any different?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Al G

Do you ask the manufacturer's cost for every product you buy? Why is this any different?

Here's what I want to know.

Why is the cost of a toothbrush $3-$5 at CVS or Walgreens? The manufacturing cost of a toothbrush must be $0.50, if that. Do you know how many toothbrushes are sold each year. They even offer special editions like Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck.

Proctor & Gamble must be making a mint on toothbrushes. I guess that's why I own it instead of CSBI (Carroll Shelby International), CVS, etc.

I wish I knew the manufacturing cost of a toothbrush. That would be important to know.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

of course! When a 'whale' is willing to pay double or triple the market price, there will be people who use their authority for personal gains. The person who paid $500K for a 50th anniversary cobra didn't have to wait 2 1/2 years for delivery.

is it shady? Yes if the profits go into individual bank accounts.

Market price is whatever someone is willing to pay for an item. There have been innumerable examples of products in high demand sold for well excess of 'sticker price' (e.g. Ford GT) - that doesn't make them 'shady' deals. Further, while sales reps probably make higher commissions on such deals, the majority of the profit is likely to go into the coffers of the dealer and ultimately, if publicly traded, the shareholders.

If buyer and seller agree on a price and execute on the transaction on an 'arms length' basis there is nothing 'shady' about the deal - regardless of the price.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

Market price is whatever someone is willing to pay for an item. There have been innumerable examples of products in high demand sold for well excess of 'sticker price' (e.g. Ford GT) - that doesn't make them 'shady' deals. Further, while sales reps probably make higher commissions on such deals, the majority of the profit is likely to go into the coffers of the dealer and ultimately, if publicly traded, the shareholders.

If buyer and seller agree on a price and execute on the transaction on an 'arms length' basis there is nothing 'shady' about the deal - regardless of the price.

Imagine if the Ford CEO sold all the new Ford GT straight out of his office? thats basically what Shelby did (in becker's lawsuit), undercut the dealerships and kept the cobras for themselves to sell .

but it really doesn't matter. shelby will settle suit again. 60th anniversary cobras is only 10 years away....LOL

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Imagine if the Ford CEO sold all the new Ford GT straight out of his office? thats basically what Shelby did (in becker's lawsuit), undercut the dealerships and kept the cobras for themselves to sell .

Actually, I don't think shelby "undercut" the dealers, he just took all the profit on those specific vehicles. I don't know how often you purchase equipment, but most often you can actually purchase directly from the manufacturer even though they almost exclusively sell through distributors. The manufacturer often charges full retail price, where as the distributors are often able to sell cheaper, below list and still make a profit. Manufacturers do this to not undercut their distributors, but some people feel better about purchasing directly from the manufacturer even though they are paying more. This is common. Ford even sells vehicles directly to the public as well. Just watch Barrett-Jackson for the obvious ones.

Now whether shelby has the right/agreement, it made with its distributors, to sell directly to the public, is another issue.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Imagine if the Ford CEO sold all the new Ford GT straight out of his office? thats basically what Shelby did (in becker's lawsuit), undercut the dealerships and kept the cobras for themselves to sell .

but it really doesn't matter. shelby will settle suit again. 60th anniversary cobras is only 10 years away....LOL

Imagine if you're wrong? Not hard to imagine.

How is a manufacturer's employee (Ford CEO) selling a product his company manufactures direct to the consumer the same thing as a manufacturing company selling directly to a consumer?