Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[Jamo]

Somebody mentioned watches...oh goody...my favorite subject.

No Rolexes...too mundane/for small wristed fellows.

Some of my favorites...all are set at precisely 34 minutes ahead of the rest of mankind (a few in multiple timezones), and I'm still late most of the time. That means I'm far crazier than the vast majority of you folks.

Heuer Monaco
Omega "Speedy"
Breitling Navitimer World
Omega PloProf
Panerai PAM 1 (many, many straps...Mario Paci, DeLuca, etc.)
Panerai PAM 170 Sub
Omega Sub
Doxa Tri Time Zone 750 Sharkhunter
Tag Grand Carrera
Ball NEDU
Bell & Ross BR 01-92 Heritage

That being said...back to the boring part of this thread about these damn little cars. Yup, gonna make it a sticky. Which means there will be zilch patience for anyone who talks about which Cobra is more elite (originals excepted, but they know that) than the next one on any other thread.

Evan...enjoy.

Done.

[Joe's Garage]

deleted, wrong thread

[LMH]

Hey what's wrong with my red face TAG Heuer Formula 1? I'd rather have it any day over a Rolex!
Larry

[Dominik]

The real question should actually be (from replica owner to real owner, or vice versa):
Did you also spend all your money on this? If not, you're not worthy having either.

;-)

When I was 24 I did spend all my money on this. In fact I borrowed half from my dad.

If you are rich and have a real one, what's the big deal? Go and drive it!
If you hope for the increase in value to make a profit, buy two real ones because you want to keep one, don't you?

[Buzz]

...duplicate...

[Buzz]

Two words - EGO and VALIDATION - the only things that can make a man care so much about what other people think of him and his choices that he gets all puffed up and red faced trying to convince every stranger, bystander and passerby that his replica is real or that his kit car is really a high-end replica.

Who the hell cares? Life is way too short to agonise over other peoples opinions, hang-ups and choices. You have your life, I have my life and I can only hope you're enjoying what you have as much as I'm enjoying mine.

The funniest thing in either this thread or the other - can't recall which - was the poster who said to the effect that you go through all of your rehearsed, hi-falutin' dissertation on how real or special your Cobra is and the folks walk away, look at each other and simultaneously say "kit car". That cracked me up, and it probably happens more often than not, notwithstanding the other glorious times when the hoi polloi are so blown away by your song and dance that they clamour and beg to pose near your ride for photos and selfie shots.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Two words - EGO and VALIDATION - the only things that can make a man care so much about what other people think of him and his choices that he gets all puffed up and red faced trying to convince every stranger, bystander and passerby that his replica is real or that his kit car is really a high-end replica.

Who the hell cares? Life is way too short to agonise over other peoples opinions, hang-ups and choices. You have your life, I have my life and I can only hope you're enjoying what you have as much as I'm enjoying mine.

The funniest thing in either this thread or the other - can't recall which - was the poster who said to the effect that you go through all of your rehearsed, hi-falutin' dissertation on how real or special your Cobra is and the folks walk away, look at each other and simultaneously say "kit car". That cracked me up, and it probably happens more often than not, notwithstanding the other glorious times when the hoi polloi are so blown away by your song and dance that they clamour and beg to pose near your ride for photos and selfie shots.

Clearly directed at me. More assumptions that are very incorrect and based on zero personal knowledge of what occurs. Even scientists and engineers have now been enlisted to help now beat me down and prove I'm wrong and what I own is not a Shelby Cobra but a pretend Shelby Cobra. Even name calling allowed to go unchecked to drive the point home. Sad. I'm crying now.

But....I see the light now ...the law, the facts and the Registry are just all wrong. Never realized I could be so misguided. Alas. Now I can't call my car a real Shelby Cobra I guess. Why own a Shelby Cobra when I could own a SPF for much less and just put a cool plate like 66COBRA or 427SNAKE on it and pretend just the same. Yes, I understand now. Maybe I'll even put a Chevy engine in it. Yes!

Never again will I respond to a thread dealing with this issue nor explain my view as to what is better to me even when the thread calls for a discussion as to what is "better" is posed like in the other thread. I promise not to say that owning a genuine Shelby Cobra is better to me than owning a pretend one. Promise. I just want all of you to like me and be my friend. I'll denigrate my Shelby so you all will like me. I will. I will. You'll see. Please, can I be your friend?

Did you guys know Rolex's now come in kits? Really. Just ordered one. Hey!, the door bell just rang, my new Rolex kit is here. Have to go put it together so I can have another fake Rolex in my collection.

Hey, you guys have a great day!



P.S. When you have fat wrist you need big watches.

[Xack]

And I was actually bragging about my Kellison and my Casio, sporting my knock-off Ray Bans. I'm so confused now!

[Ron61]

Xact,

You think that you are confused. I just read this whole thread and have already forgotten what the first post was.

Ron

[Jamo]

All that being said, with the creation of this sticky, I am not going to allow a free-for-all with name calling, etc. This applies to everyone concerned.

Proceed with care...

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Clearly directed at me. More assumptions that are very incorrect and based on zero personal knowledge of what occurs. Even scientists and engineers have now been enlisted to help now beat me down and prove I'm wrong and what I own is not a Shelby Cobra but a pretend Shelby Cobra...

Not totally and solely directed at you Evan. Many Cobra owners are a bit anal about defending their brands but you must admit you're THE major player in this game. Your car is a Shelby Cobra, no debate about that is possible. What causes the ongoing back-and-forth is your approach and the fact that many feel you denigrate other replicas by constantly casting your car as having a more pedigreed or elevated status than the others.

People who don't value the Shelby branding above the the car itself will never agree that yours is anything but a more expensive replica that came about because Shelby, surprised by the thriving Cobra replica industry and reckoning that he would enjoy a natural advantage, decided to readopt his long abandoned Cobra and jump into the replica game.

The various court rulings that came down as a result of his attempts to squeeze out the other replica manufacturers imply to most that the Cobra has become its own generic class of car based upon a certain set of distinct characteristics, primarily the shape and appearance of the body that no one entity can exclusively own.

From a branding and marketing point of view, however, Shelby owns the legal right to produce and market his product using the actual "Cobra" name, so while they're all essentially Cobras, only SAI can legally market theirs as such. Of course since they all replicate or imitate in varying degrees of faithfulness the original AC/Shelby Cobra of the 1960's, having that ability to brand theirs with that same Shelby Cobra name does imply a certain amount of cachet to enough people that they can sell at a higher price point.

No argument there and not at all difficult to understand, but one must also be able to understand the perspective that leads many to hold the opinion that a Shelby Continuation Cobra is just another (very nice, high quality) replica that happens to be sold and branded today by the current incarnation of the same company that used to make the original (read REal) Cobras back in the day. It's a sticking point that you (Evan) will never cotton to and others will never concede, so the arguing is pointless and all the animosity is just unnecessary.

If Ford and/or Shelby decided to manufacture and sell an actual, modern car based on the old Cobra name and heritage, it would be a real Shelby Cobra every bit as much as the new resurrected Camaros are real Chevy Camaros. The problem is that the Cobras made in the 60's can never again be manufactured and sold as automobiles again - by anyone - so all that remains of them now are the component/kit replicas of those cars, some of which are sold by Shelby - and they're damn nice ones that come with a lofty price premium because of the legal Cobra moniker.

You stepped up and coughed up the premium and yes, you can be technically correct when you say that you own a real Shelby Cobra. To most other people, regardless of marketing semantics and legal branding rights, the only real Cobras, which all of our cars replicate (again, with varying degrees of faithfulness), were made in the 60's and that to them is historical fact, unassailable and unchangeable; impervious to legal wrangling over the use of the brand name or the creative interpretation of such by someone in whose interest it is to establish otherwise in order to protect the perceived value of his investment.

I don't care much either way myself. I just love Cobras, and these are just my musings on this way too contentious subject. Have a great day all, and enjoy your Cobras Shelby or otherwise.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Not totally and solely directed at you Evan. Many Cobra owners are a bit anal about defending their brands but you must admit you're THE major player in this game. Your car is a Shelby Cobra, no debate about that is possible. What causes the ongoing back-and-forth is your approach and the fact that many feel you denigrate other replicas by constantly casting your car as having a more pedigreed or elevated status than the others.

People who don't value the Shelby branding above the the car itself will never agree that yours is anything but a more expensive replica that came about because Shelby, surprised by the thriving Cobra replica industry and reckoning that he would enjoy a natural advantage, decided to readopt his long abandoned Cobra and jump into the replica game.

The various court rulings that came down as a result of his attempts to squeeze out the other replica manufacturers imply to most that the Cobra has become its own generic class of car based upon a certain set of distinct characteristics, primarily the shape and appearance of the body that no one entity can exclusively own.

From a branding and marketing point of view, however, Shelby owns the legal right to produce and market his product using the actual "Cobra" name, so while they're all essentially Cobras, only SAI can legally market theirs as such. Of course since they all replicate or imitate in varying degrees of faithfulness the original AC/Shelby Cobra of the 1960's, having that ability to brand theirs with that same Shelby Cobra name does imply a certain amount of cachet to enough people that they can sell at a higher price point.

No argument there and not at all difficult to understand, but one must also be able to understand the perspective that leads many to hold the opinion that a Shelby Continuation Cobra is just another (very nice, high quality) replica that happens to be sold and branded today by the current incarnation of the same company that used to make the original (read REal) Cobras back in the day. It's a sticking point that you (Evan) will never cotton to and others will never concede, so the arguing is pointless and all the animosity is just unnecessary.

If Ford and/or Shelby decided to manufacture and sell an actual, modern car based on the old Cobra name and heritage, it would be a real Shelby Cobra every bit as much as the new resurrected Camaros are real Chevy Camaros. The problem is that the Cobras made in the 60's can never again be manufactured and sold as automobiles again - by anyone - so all that remains of them now are the component/kit replicas of those cars, some of which are sold by Shelby - and they're damn nice ones that come with a lofty price premium because of the legal Cobra moniker.

You stepped up and coughed up the premium and yes, you can be technically correct when you say that you own a real Shelby Cobra. To most other people, regardless of marketing semantics and legal branding rights, the only real Cobras, which all of our cars replicate (again, with varying degrees of faithfulness), were made in the 60's and that to them is historical fact, unassailable and unchangeable; impervious to legal wrangling over the use of the brand name or the creative interpretation of such by someone in whose interest it is to establish otherwise in order to protect the perceived value of his investment.

I don't care much either way myself. I just love Cobras, and these are just my musings on this way too contentious subject. Have a great day all, and enjoy your Cobras Shelby or otherwise.

Buzz: Very well stated. However, understand, I am not trying to elevate my car or the continuation series above anything else (except when pushing back pointedly in admittedly a somewhat childless way to childish attacks). Just stating what they are. Many here take that "statement" as a statement of superiority. What is superior or better is subjective. Everyone's criteria as to what's "better" is different. As to pedigree, if you want a Shelby Cobra and Shelby pedigree your choices are limited. Period. Original or "extra crispy" Just kidding. Original or Continuation. Those are just the facts. Not derogatory. Just the facts. The replica and kit issue is irrelevant to me. A side show.

Personally, for my use and purpose my car fits my criteria better than an original. I would be more nervous then I am already driving a $1 million dollar car around than my car which is already expensive enough. I get the same enjoyment out of it and it meets my criteria. End of story.

I love all these cars and the hobby. As I said I have friends that have ERAs and FFR's and went on a FFR Cobra run in June. I have attended the DVSF in the past where all sorts of replicas by the hundreds were there. Even beat my old CC nemesis Turk in a well publicized CC drag race at the event. Dating myself here. In fact met a guy at a local cruise night the other week with a SPf and spent about 15 minutes talking to him about his car. Never even mentioned I have a Cobra. The discussion was about his car. I am the first guy to sing the praises of ERAs. I remain friends with Peter Portante' at ERA even today and speak with him occasionally. Peter has even advised on my decision of getting my Shelby years ago and to get the aluminum car. For a "blowhard" I seem to have no problem getting along and have even been invited back on the FFR run for this fall.

Saying what my car is factually and legally does not equate to putting others down. I see it the exactly opposite, I see others having to tear down to make themselves feel better.

Is the glass half full or half empty?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Jamo

All that being said, with the creation of this sticky, I am not going to allow a free-for-all with name calling, etc. This applies to everyone concerned.

Proceed with care...

And with this being said, please don't allow this thread to become a Watch Talk Forum either. Watches are superfluous and boring.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

And with this being said, please don't allow this thread to become a Watch Talk Forum either. Watches are superfluous and boring.

Oh bite me...at least as interesting at what else is being talked about here.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Oh bite me...at least as interesting at what else is being talked about here.

Talking about watches is like watching grass turn brown, since there's not enough water due to water rationing.

[RodKnock]

I'll quote Jamo from Post #77 page 4:

Originally Posted by Jamo

All that being said, with the creation of this sticky, I am not going to allow a free-for-all with name calling, etc. This applies to everyone concerned.

Proceed with care...

[Joe's Garage]

Well said Buzz, I'm wondering if you could shed some light on the rights to use the "Cobra" moniker. As I understand it, Ford owns the Cobra Trademark and gave Shelby the rights to use it. Seems they probably gave AC Cars Ltd. the rights to use it as well for the AC Cobras sold across the pond. Evan says AC "was allowed to build AC Cobras under license and permission of SAI". Seems to me that permission would have come from Ford being the trademark owner? Yes, no, more to the story?

[mrmustang]

Let's face facts, unless your car has a providence such as the following, it's a replica




Might I add, that you'll notice how it is invoiced as an "AC ACE" chassis with the CSX2032 chassis ID.

[mrmustang]

As for watches, anything larger in physical size than a Tag Aqua



is just the owner of such watches making up for his "shortcomings"


Bill S.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

As for watches, anything larger in physical size than a Tag Aqua



is just the owner of such watches making up for his "shortcomings"


Bill S.

Well, isn't that just the cutest little thing. 1,000 feet...that is best described as damp. For those of us with no shortcomings but in need of something that emphasizes impeccable taste and the unquestionable need for big blocks, there is truly only one...the Omega PloProf. Cousteau had a hand in its design back in the day.