Ford v Ferrari races into theaters on Nov. 15.

[snakeeyes]

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

It was a magical time in retrospect. I am sure it was not all fun and games back then even though Shelby might have made it look that way.

John Morton’s book “Inside Shelby American” really lends some insight into what it was like around there. John was one of the early employees, and literally went from being a shop gofer to co-driving the first big-block Cobra at Sebring with Ken Miles.

[Anthony]

snakeeyes, great info !!!

I remember Shelby giving an interview, about the time of the series 1 production, where he talked about the 1966 Lemans. Shelby stated that during a conversation with Ford management near the end of the race, he , himself, brought up the idea of having the cars finish together, in a tie, so everybody would be happy, including Ford due to the publicity. He then stated that the outcome was not what he expected, and he has regretted that decision ever since, for how it affected Miles.

Also, watching the highlights of the race, at dusk, Miles is in the lead. At dawn, McLaren/Amon are in the lead, and miles/Hulme are second. I watched an interview with Amon where he stated that when he was in the lead, he was instgructed by management to slow down, which he did, but Miles/Hulme did not, thus passing them, and retaking the lead. Well, if this is true, then this muddies up the "true" winner ?

[snakeeyes]

It’s unfortunate that I guess we’ll never know all of the facts, what with Miles dying not long after and most of the others involved gone now too. These days the TV coverage would have real-time GPS lap data, audio of all of the communications between pits and drivers, and 35 camera angles to catch every movement of every car. I think the ‘66 Le Mans was one of the first sports car races broadcast live, but of course it wasn’t all 24 hours like you can catch now through TV and internet. Certainly adds to the romance of the whole thing, though.

[novasscnc]

Saw it loved it, 70 % correct but still very good

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by snakeeyes

It’s unfortunate that I guess we’ll never know all of the facts, what with Miles dying not long after and most of the others involved gone now too. These days the TV coverage would have real-time GPS lap data, audio of all of the communications between pits and drivers, and 35 camera angles to catch every movement of every car. I think the ‘66 Le Mans was one of the first sports car races broadcast live, but of course it wasn’t all 24 hours like you can catch now through TV and internet. Certainly adds to the romance of the whole thing, though.

couldn't agree with you more.

Miles was a world class driver, one of the best, if not the best. With the work, dedication he gave to Shelby, i.e.Ford, developing a loser car, GT40, into a winner, also including the development work with cobra's, mustangs, that contributed to the success of many other drivers, all from his work. He really deserved to win. I think everybody feels bad about the outcome, not that it takes anything away from amon / mclarenn who also were outstanding.

[t walgamuth]

Originally Posted by snakeeyes

John Morton’s book “Inside Shelby American” really lends some insight into what it was like around there. John was one of the early employees, and literally went from being a shop gofer to co-driving the first big-block Cobra at Sebring with Ken Miles.

I'll have to check that out.

Thanks!

[snakeeyes]

Originally Posted by Anthony

couldn't agree with you more.

Miles was a world class driver, one of the best, if not the best. With the work, dedication he gave to Shelby, i.e.Ford, developing a loser car, GT40, into a winner, also including the development work with cobra's, mustangs, that contributed to the success of many other drivers, all from his work. He really deserved to win. I think everybody feels bad about the outcome, not that it takes anything away from amon / mclarenn who also were outstanding.

Yes, he was not only a very talented driver but a car builder, as well. His MG-based R1 and R2 specials had many successes to their credit in the mid-50s, as did the Porsche-powered Cooper he also drove in that time period. They also had their fair share of DNFs, but Miles was like Colin Chapman in that he believed in building things to be as light as possible, which sometimes contributed to parts failures.

Miles' work in that regard culminated in the Flip Top Cobra, which was significantly lighter than the 289-powered factory race cars while having considerably more horsepower. The car was kind of a lark for Miles at a time when his "real job" with Shelby was becoming increasingly more pressing, and after it was fast as hell but broke repeatedly at Nassau it was set aside and eventually sold as part of the Shelby American "fire sale". I've always wondered what that car might have become if the timing were a little different and the concept developed fully.

Not to take anything away from McLaren or Amon, either, but it's sad that his legacy didn't include the "triple crown" of Daytona/Sebring/Le Mans, especially considering he was gone forever just a few months after the dead heat fiasco.

[ront49]

I'm going this afternoon ... looking forward to seeing it....

[t walgamuth]

I am thinking of going again....this time with ear plugs!

[tomshep]

I'll bring this back to the top....saw it today and really enjoyed it.

I will be the first to admit I am not an expert on the Shelby Team from the 60s but I did feel the general content was good. I enjoyed the nostalgia of many scenes and look forward to watching it again at home where I can observe the background action.

I would like to have seen them include a little more history of the failed 64 effort prior to Shelby getting involved to show how he inherited the program and made it successful. I also would have liked more inclusion of how the Ford/Shelby relationship started with the Cobra and grew into the GT40 program.

Few items I had never read/heard and I would like to know if accurate:

1) Was Shelby on fire when driving at LeMans?

2) Is the "wrench" accurate?

3) Was Beebe locked in Shelby's office at LAX?

4) Any credibility to the Ferrari stopwatch/bolt at LeMans?

And, what happened to Miles wife and son?

Tom

[Michael C Henry]

I just watched a Netflix "Shelby American" by Adam Carola . I'd like to have that film for later also.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by tomshep

I'll bring this back to the top....saw it today and really enjoyed it.

I will be the first to admit I am not an expert on the Shelby Team from the 60s but I did feel the general content was good. I enjoyed the nostalgia of many scenes and look forward to watching it again at home where I can observe the background action.

I would like to have seen them include a little more history of the failed 64 effort prior to Shelby getting involved to show how he inherited the program and made it successful. I also would have liked more inclusion of how the Ford/Shelby relationship started with the Cobra and grew into the GT40 program.

Few items I had never read/heard and I would like to know if accurate:

1) Was Shelby on fire when driving at LeMans?

2) Is the "wrench" accurate?

3) Was Beebe locked in Shelby's office at LAX?

4) Any credibility to the Ferrari stopwatch/bolt at LeMans?

And, what happened to Miles wife and son?

Tom

From what I could find I don't think the "wrench" incident was a real event and locking Beebe in Shelby's office didn't happen. Don't know about the others. From what I could find on the internet (always risky business) there were a lot of liberties taken with the whole Carroll Shelby vs Ford story. Some of the incidents had a real basis but they were portrayed out of actual chronological order and/or over-hyped. Shelby was actually in agreement on the 1-2-3 finish although regretted it later when Miles got screwed. The test drive with Ford II didn't happen - at least as portrayed. Events over 2 - 3 years in the GT40 program development and early competition were hugely compressed in time and shuffled around some in the movie. What I found said the actual race events were actually portrayed very correctly although it was raining at the finish. Don't know about the stop watch and loose bolt - but somehow I suspect some of that may not be completely made up.

I also thought it was a great movie and worth seeing again.

[kevins2]

Whether the bolt and stopwatch scenes were true or not, it's within Shelby's character to do those things. If they're not true and you could ask him about them today, he'd likely say something like "No, that didn't happen...but I wish I'd thought of it".

[snakeeyes]

Originally Posted by tomshep

I'll bring this back to the top....saw it today and really enjoyed it.

I will be the first to admit I am not an expert on the Shelby Team from the 60s but I did feel the general content was good. I enjoyed the nostalgia of many scenes and look forward to watching it again at home where I can observe the background action.

I would like to have seen them include a little more history of the failed 64 effort prior to Shelby getting involved to show how he inherited the program and made it successful. I also would have liked more inclusion of how the Ford/Shelby relationship started with the Cobra and grew into the GT40 program.

Few items I had never read/heard and I would like to know if accurate:

1) Was Shelby on fire when driving at LeMans?

2) Is the "wrench" accurate?

3) Was Beebe locked in Shelby's office at LAX?

4) Any credibility to the Ferrari stopwatch/bolt at LeMans?

And, what happened to Miles wife and son?

Tom

Tom, in order:
1)No;
2)No;
3)No; and
4)No.


I understand the film’s producers wanted to make the non-racing fans in the audience understand how dangerous racing was in the era, right off the bat. The truth is Shelby not only popped nitro pills throughout the race to ward off his persistent angina but also battled dysentery the entire 24 hours. I suppose it would be much less dramatic to show him in the restroom during his driving breaks so they decided on a pit fire instead.

Miles by all accounts was mercurial and didn’t suffer fools gladly, but I’ve never read of him assaulting anyone with tools or fists. But, again, I understand that films need to establish personalities in a hurry, and showing KM walking around in an immaculate polo shirt (with collar flipped up) or pausing from driving to take tea would have been counterproductive to demonstrating what a hard charger Miles was.

Bob

[FredG]

Wife away on business so I go see the movie by myself. It was a weekday evening and snowing. The movie is very entertaining. The best part??? I had the whole place to myself.

[snakeeyes]

As far as Ken’s wife and son, Peter went to work for famed car builders Troutman and Barnes not long after his dad’s death, and has remained active in the car world ever since. He was Ivan “Ironman” Stewart’s crew chief for some time back in the 1990s. Here’s an article talking about Peter: https://www.pajiba.com/film_reviews/...-son-peter.php

Mollie Miles is no longer with us. Here’s another link that gives some insight into her: https://claireandjamie.com/2019/11/0...e-miles/amp/3/

[sd427]

Originally Posted by Michael C Henry

I just watched a Netflix "Shelby American" by Adam Carola . I'd like to have that film for later also.

Go to chassy.com and buy it on DVD or BluRay.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Michael C Henry

I just watched a Netflix "Shelby American" by Adam Carola . I'd like to have that film for later also.

This one? https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...arroll-shelby/

You can buy a download or disks here: https://chassy.com/product/shelby-american/

[snakeeyes]

Originally Posted by sd427

Go to chassy.com and buy it on DVD or BluRay.

The 24-Hour War is also available on that site. Another good watch with a lot of historical footage.

[tomshep]

Just ordered both!

Tom