Small block Chevy in a cobra?

[Alfa02]

Since we changed the subject about racing a "Org" Cobra, rather then let it sit, never to see the track again, is a waste. I love seeing a Org. racing Cobra, but to see that car in action, is the total experience, see, hear, taste, smell. Now some may say, it's worth too much to race again, pure horse puckty. The Late great Pete Lovely raced his 58 Ferrari Testa Rossa (Worth 9+ million) every chance he got. As he said to a TV reporter "I can't do 9 million dollars worth of damage to it, It was built to race and By God that's what it's going to do" As we racer used to say, the car's safer on the track then on the street Cheers TommyRot.

[olddog]

So you estimate only 20 original cars remain in original untouched condition. Remember there were street versions sold. Not all were race versions. Several members bought originals around the early 1970's and still have them. They might have been the second owner. Maybe the third owner. I believe there may even be a few original purchasers in existence. I would have to buy a Shelby registry, before I could speak with any knowledge. I too would doubt any race version is pristine untouched, but some have been restored to like new condition, for sure.

I do know that not all of the Cobra's built survive today. I also know that some were wrecked beyond repair, but different people got a piece or two (guessing with numbers on them). Now there are multiple Cobra's with a part or two from an original claiming to be the original car. I have heard that there are more claimed original Cobra's than were built. Thus the Shelby registry is trusted to sort all the crap out. Just because you repair a destroyed car, the tittle does not necessarily mean the registry will accept it as an original, from what I have read.

I'm guessing that an original Cobra would not be allowed to participate in any modern day races. Rules have changed so much over the last 50 years or so. There are some Cobras running in vintage racing events from time to time. A member does run an original in Autocross events.

[olddog]

Double post

[t walgamuth]

Tough crowd when 700 hp is not awesome!

[olddog]

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Tough crowd when 700 hp is not awesome!

You missed my point (most likely sarcastically ignored it - for humor).

You can make 700 Hp with a FE, 385 series, Windsor, Clevor, Modular, and a Coyote.

You can put OEM EFI on any engine. I personally have a Ford OEM Mass Air Flow EFI on my 347, and you can put it on any engine. You just have to put a chip on it to tell it the cid, injector size, MAF meter curve, and then set your AFR maps and timing maps for your engine. Likewise you could put a GM EFI on any engine. I'm not exactly sure how to tune GM and some of the newer stuff, as I have not done it, but I know it is done.

So that leaves "why do this with a Chevy engine when there are many roads to get there with Ford engines?"

I suspect the answer is:
I know Chevy engines.
My budy, who does the work, knows Chevy engines.
Everyone I know uses Chevy engines.
I can buy a junkyard Chevy cheap.

[blykins]

Ace, I have some 700 hp pump gas Windsors….

[peterpjb]

Originally Posted by blykins

Ace, I have some 700 hp pump gas Windsors….

700hp... 850hp... lots of power, guys

is that the power on the dyno or at the rear wheels?
brent, did you ever measure the difference with your engines?

[blykins]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

700hp... 850hp... lots of power, guys

is that the power on the dyno or at the rear wheels?
brent, did you ever measure the difference with your engines?

Engine dyno power. Last 460W I did made about 720 hp on pump gas.

I don't have access to a chassis dyno, so I only have numbers from guys who put the engines in the car, then take them to tune. On Cobras, the difference can be pretty substantial because of the restrictive sidepipes and air cleaners. I think the last Cobra that I saw the results for made 660 hp on the engine dyno and 550 on the chassis dyno. So about 17% loss.

On other vehicles, can be as low as 15% or as high as 20% if the vehicle has a 9" rear and an auto trans.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

700hp... 850hp... lots of power, guys

Nah, this is a lot of power....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epb3F5txePk

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by blykins

Ace, I have some 700 hp pump gas Windsors….

I forgot my man Brent who has built quite a nice portfolio of engines. Brent specified the cam for my rebuild amongst other assistance and it absolutely delivered...rowdy sounding at about 1100rpm idle.

Brent, hope all is well. When I last spoke to Jim before he passed he was hot and heavy on a new Brodix Head Hunter 15 or 20 degree setup he was working on. He was wanting to do a 445w with a hydraulic roller and a super victor.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by Ace23

I forgot my man Brent who has built quite a nice portfolio of engines. Brent specified the cam for my rebuild amongst other assistance and it absolutely delivered...rowdy sounding at about 1100rpm idle.

Brent, hope all is well. When I last spoke to Jim before he passed he was hot and heavy on a new Brodix Head Hunter 15 or 20 degree setup he was working on. He was wanting to do a 445w with a hydraulic roller and a super victor.

I could do a pump gas, hydraulic roller SBF that would make 700.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by olddog

So that leaves "why do this with a Chevy engine when there are many roads to get there with Ford engines?

I suspect the answer is:
I know Chevy engines.
My budy, who does the work, knows Chevy engines.
Everyone I know uses Chevy engines.
I can buy a junkyard Chevy cheap.

Olddog,

If I may, can you kindly quell for me this paradox then.

GMs LS7 is a legitimate "427", which some may argue is a more authentic moniker than say the title "Ford". After all, the "car" wasn't made by Ford. (Shock! Horror! I know...) They (ford) merely stuffed it with thier engines, no?

Since then the car is equally (some may argue more so) known as a "427 Cobra", as compared to a "Ford Cobra". Trade marks not withstanding.

Do you protest the use of GMs LS7 with the same vigor?
They are the only readily available factory 427 crate engine, come with gobs of power, are compact and have awesome internals (including titanium) bits and pieces.

Would that not be a more fitting motor than many of the Ford variants you listed above?

[RB60]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Olddog,

If I may, can you kindly quell for me this paradox then.

GMs LS7 is a legitimate "427", which some may argue is a more authentic moniker than say the title "Ford". After all, the "car" wasn't made by Ford. (Shock! Horror! I know...) They (ford) merely stuffed it with thier engines, no?

Since then the car is equally (some may argue more so) known as a "427 Cobra", as compared to a "Ford Cobra". Trade marks not withstanding.

Do you protest the use of GMs LS7 with the same vigor?
They are the only readily available factory 427 crate engine, come with gobs of power, are compact and have awesome internals (including titanium) bits and pieces.

Would that not be a more fitting motor than many of the Ford variants you listed above?

No, it would not.

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by Dimis

Olddog,

After all, the "car" wasn't made by Ford. (Shock! Horror! I know...) They (ford) merely stuffed it with thier engines, no?

That was Shelby wasn't it? Not Ford.

[Alfa02]

@ olddog, I speak of org. Cobras racing in vintage races only. But if you think they drive them as if their worth million's of dollar's you are all wrong, I've ran with these guy's on the track, None of us that know how, or have the gene to be a "shoe" (Driver), let any grass grow under the tires, we use your cars as they were meant to be driven. I've raced in vintage racing for 16years, and never dented mine or anyone else's fender. You can be careful, and still drive 9.8 to 9.9 We of course talk with each other, to say who we feel safe racing with, like anything else there is always the 1% that we don't trust out there, but we just give them a wide berth. Cheers TommyRot.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Alfa02

@ olddog, I speak of org. Cobras racing in vintage races only. But if you think they drive them as if their worth million's of dollar's you are all wrong, I've ran with these guy's on the track, None of us that know how, or have the gene to be a "shoe" (Driver), let any grass grow under the tires, we use your cars as they were meant to be driven. I've raced in vintage racing for 16years, and never dented mine or anyone else's fender. You can be careful, and still drive 9.8 to 9.9 We of course talk with each other, to say who we feel safe racing with, like anything else there is always the 1% that we don't trust out there, but we just give them a wide berth. Cheers TommyRot.

Take a look at the history of all of the Cobras at the Shelby American Collection. Most of them have a race history and were vintage raced, most by Bill Murray. These are cars owned by Larry Miller and Steve Volk.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by Alfa02

@ olddog, I speak of org. Cobras racing in vintage races only. But if you think they drive them as if their worth million's of dollar's you are all wrong, I've ran with these guy's on the track, None of us that know how, or have the gene to be a "shoe" (Driver), let any grass grow under the tires, we use your cars as they were meant to be driven. I've raced in vintage racing for 16years, and never dented mine or anyone else's fender. You can be careful, and still drive 9.8 to 9.9 We of course talk with each other, to say who we feel safe racing with, like anything else there is always the 1% that we don't trust out there, but we just give them a wide berth. Cheers TommyRot.

I have seen a vintage race on TV. Yes they ran them hard. No delusions there. My hat is off to them and you.

A wise man said "a man has got to know his limitations." I have no delusions there either. I'm not capable of handling a Cobra on a track in full out competition. When I was younger I had pretty good reaction time and natural abilities. With the proper training and practice, I might have been able to do it, but even that is a question.

I had a 1968 Dodge Charger, that was highly modified. It would top out at about 175 MPH. It had a lot longer wheel base though. It was my favorite of all the cars I owned until I got my Cobra. My Cobra handles like a dream to any car I ever owned, but I do not push it to the limits. I have pushed it a bit on autocross tracks. I definitely know it is capable of much more than I can handle.

[Alfa02]

Indeed Tony, In fact Steve owns the Cobra that Ken took me for a ride in Oh'these many years ago (I was 8yo) in 1963. I believe Tom's (Benjamin) 289 FIA is still in the collection, he and Wade Carter (906 Carrera) used me as moving chicane, by passing me on either side 30mph faster then me That's getting up close & personal, with these cars The site, feel, smell, sound of those two at speed (14cyl's.@ full chat), as they went by still gives me "Goose-bumps". Cheers Tom.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Alfa02

Indeed Tony, In fact Steve owns the Cobra that Ken took me for a ride in Oh'these many years ago (I was 8yo) in 1963. I believe Tom's (Benjamin) 289 FIA is still in the collection, he and Wade Carter (906 Carrera) used me as moving chicane, by passing me on either side 30mph faster then me That's getting up close & personal, with these cars The site, feel, smell, sound of those two at speed (14cyl's.@ full chat), as they went by still gives me "Goose-bumps". Cheers Tom.

It's the best kept Shelby Cobra and GT40 secret in the world. There are currently more original LeMans winning GT40s in that little building in Boulder than anywhere else on the planet.

Plus the car that started it all - CSX2000 now lives in Boulder when it is not on tour.

My favorite is Otto's original 260.

[t walgamuth]

Autocross is a very safe way to drive quickly. Nothing but plastic cones to hit, worst damage is scuffed paint. Of course you could damage your engine, clutch or other things but with rev limiters that is unlikely too. The sort of average one minute or less run time limits the need for conditioning and old guys can compete heads up with youngsters.