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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2020, 02:49 PM
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It’s settled - I’m going with a “300 Big Six” in my next Cobra......:-)
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2020, 03:50 PM
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Dimis, you $hit stirrer! One post about an ELECTRIC powered Cobra and look what you have done.......Maybe when all this lock down is relaxed we might see you out and about the Noble Park area one Saturday
cheers Doug
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2020, 05:09 PM
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Some of you guy's make me laugh! Most of us do not have original AC-SHELBY- FORD Cobra's! We have kit cars and HotRods. Or a replica made Shelby America which is not the company that made the Cobra in the 60's they went out business for 6 plus years and came back with Chrysler! AC Cars Ltd sold the name and what ever the company is today sells a Cobra with a GM LS engine. But back to the kit cars and HotRods you guy's don't have a problem with a square tube frame or space frame hybrid or suspension from a Pinto or a Jaguar or a MG or Datsun or a BMW SUV or a (for a modern handling super car) a CORVETTE or a combo of all the above or just some junk that is made to fit! You guy's have no problem with a 5 or 6 speed transmission that is made in Mexico for Corvettes or a Viper. And no problem with a fiberglass body that was probably made by a company that makes boat hulls? But put in that Chevy motor in the car that you used the suspension and transmission from and you guys have a freaking meltdown???

Last edited by Thor maine; 05-22-2020 at 06:55 PM..
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2020, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor maine View Post
you guy's don't have a problem with a square tube frame or space frame hybrid or suspension from a Pinto or a Jaguar or a MG or Datsun or a BMW SUV or a (for a modern handling super car) a CORVETTE or a combo of all the above or just some junk that is made to fit! You guy's have no problem with a 5 or 6 speed transmission that is made in Mexico for Corvettes or a Viper. And no problem with a fiberglass body that was probably made by a company that makes boat hulls? But put in that Chevy motor in the car that you used the suspension and transmission from and you guys have a freaking meltdown???
Correct!
Because all those other things are an upgrade and improvement... just like old Shelby himself intended... but a Chevy... haha...


Just kidding... or maybe not... you decide...
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Last edited by Dimis; 05-22-2020 at 08:33 PM.. Reason: A little more salt.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2020, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letsboogie351 View Post
Dimis, you $hit stirrer! One post about an ELECTRIC powered Cobra and look what you have done.......Maybe when all this lock down is relaxed we might see you out and about the Noble Park area one Saturday
cheers Doug
DOUG!
I'm looking forward to it!
You sir and Marty of course, are ones I do miss.

Ps. ..and here I thought people would get their knickers in a twist over the electric motor.
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2020, 10:37 PM
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Somehow an electric motor does seem more appropriate than a Chevy engine.

I do think a Ferrari engine would be a step lower than a Chevy.

Weirdly enough, I like the straight 6 cylinder idea. You could make reasonable Hp with the Ford 300 straight 6 with a little work. Problem is from oil pan to valve cover I think it would be too tall. Maybe the old Chrysler slant 6 would fit. Yeah I like it. I think you guy's have helped me see the light.
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2020, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olddog View Post
Somehow an electric motor does seem more appropriate than a Chevy engine.

I do think a Ferrari engine would be a step lower than a Chevy.

Weirdly enough, I like the straight 6 cylinder idea. You could make reasonable Hp with the Ford 300 straight 6 with a little work. Problem is from oil pan to valve cover I think it would be too tall. Maybe the old Chrysler slant 6 would fit. Yeah I like it. I think you guy's have helped me see the light.
How your tune has changed!
You were praising a V12 powered Kirkham a while back.
Shouldn’t you be asleep?
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2020, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olddog View Post
....I do think a Ferrari engine would be a step lower than a Chevy.....
Interesting. The styling of the AC Ace was heavily influenced by the Ferrari 166MM

OK, if I had a spare early Ferrari V12 engine, I wouldn't graft it into something with a plastic body and a Tremec gearbox

Cheers!
Glen

edit: no offence intended toward owners of plastic bodies or Tremecs (or Ferrari engines!) or whales, or Aston Martin owners who feel left out
....oop, naughty moi, forgot the Chev guys and the moderators...

I reserve the right to add more after another glass of red
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Last edited by xb-60; 05-23-2020 at 01:59 AM.. Reason: edit needy
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2020, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olddog View Post
...
If money were no object for me, I would buy a Kirkham and drop a 427 FE in it. If I owned an original I could not enjoy risking it on the streets, so I would choose a Kirkham over an original, if money didn't matter and I had to choose one. Otherwise I would own both.....
its the same money to fix a Kirkham or an original after an accident ...
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2020, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
How your tune has changed!
You were praising a V12 powered Kirkham a while back.
Shouldn’t you be asleep?
There was a V12 at the London Ohio Cobra show a few years back. It was a marine engine based on a Chevy design. I think it was a BB but might have been a SB. All I remember is the engine. It might have been a Kirkham. Yes I did think it was very interesting and loved it.

I am still being consistent. I have said all along be creative, if your not going to put a Ford engine in it. That V12 marine engine hit it out of the ball park on being creative.

There is nothing creative about sticking a SBC in anything. There is nothing you can put one in that hasn't been done a dozen times before.
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2020, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb-60 View Post
Interesting. The styling of the AC Ace was heavily influenced by the Ferrari 166MM

OK, if I had a spare early Ferrari V12 engine, I wouldn't graft it into something with a plastic body and a Tremec gearbox

Cheers!
Glen

edit: no offence intended toward owners of plastic bodies or Tremecs (or Ferrari engines!) or whales, or Aston Martin owners who feel left out
....oop, naughty moi, forgot the Chev guys and the moderators...

I reserve the right to add more after another glass of red
I had assumed that when I said the Cobra had a rich history, an Icon, that everyone knew it. Maybe I was wrong. The main rival that the Cobra raced against in the USA was the Chevy Corvette. In Europe it was the Ferrari. That is what is so wrong with sticking a Chevy engine in a Cobra. Thus a Ferrari (the entire reason the GT40 existed) would be worse.

https://www.shelby.com/en-us/History
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Last edited by olddog; 05-23-2020 at 08:41 AM..
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2020, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpjb View Post
its the same money to fix a Kirkham or an original after an accident ...
But if it is a total loss, a piece of history would be lost forever.

PS

Any car that is in pristine original condition is worth more than one that was wrecked and repaired. Let's just say a 20% reduction in value. So a 2 million dollar car would loose $400,000 in value, and a $150,000 car would loose $30,000 in value. Even though the cost to repair them would be the same the economic loss is quite different.

Even though the economics says crashing an original is worse, my real reason is risking a lost piece of history forever.

Last edited by olddog; 05-23-2020 at 09:02 AM.. Reason: PS
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2020, 09:30 AM
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What is worse, buying an original Cobra and sticking it in the garage never to be driven or raced again or buying an original car and racing the woo out of it?

Also if a car is wrecked racing would it be worth more if the driver was really famous or less than an unwrecked and undriven car?
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2020, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
What is worse, buying an original Cobra and sticking it in the garage never to be driven or raced again or buying an original car and racing the woo out of it?

Also if a car is wrecked racing would it be worth more if the driver was really famous or less than an unwrecked and undriven car?
Interesting questions.

I think a Cobra that was wrecked by one of greats and repaired would be worth more than a pristine original Cobra to many collectors.

Either of those two cars wrecked, by a nobody like me, would loose value for sure.

Last edited by olddog; 05-23-2020 at 09:44 AM..
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olddog View Post
But if it is a total loss, a piece of history would be lost forever.

PS

Any car that is in pristine original condition is worth more than one that was wrecked and repaired. Let's just say a 20% reduction in value. So a 2 million dollar car would loose $400,000 in value, and a $150,000 car would loose $30,000 in value. Even though the cost to repair them would be the same the economic loss is quite different.

Even though the economics says crashing an original is worse, my real reason is risking a lost piece of history forever.

how many are in original condition and never damaged? 2%? normally any original car was damaged or modified, so it is pretty meaningless if you damage it again, total losses aren’t existent btw, only if you had placed all your paperworks in car when it totally burns
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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2020, 07:23 PM
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I wouldn’t think twice about a Chevy engine if that is what you want. A nice stroker LSX block making 700hp+ On pump gas with a hydraulic roller and OEM fuel injection would be pretty awesome.
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2020, 07:58 PM
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Since we changed the subject about racing a "Org" Cobra, rather then let it sit, never to see the track again, is a waste. I love seeing a Org. racing Cobra, but to see that car in action, is the total experience, see, hear, taste, smell. Now some may say, it's worth too much to race again, pure horse puckty. The Late great Pete Lovely raced his 58 Ferrari Testa Rossa (Worth 9+ million) every chance he got. As he said to a TV reporter "I can't do 9 million dollars worth of damage to it, It was built to race and By God that's what it's going to do" As we racer used to say, the car's safer on the track then on the street Cheers TommyRot.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2020, 12:19 AM
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So you estimate only 20 original cars remain in original untouched condition. Remember there were street versions sold. Not all were race versions. Several members bought originals around the early 1970's and still have them. They might have been the second owner. Maybe the third owner. I believe there may even be a few original purchasers in existence. I would have to buy a Shelby registry, before I could speak with any knowledge. I too would doubt any race version is pristine untouched, but some have been restored to like new condition, for sure.

I do know that not all of the Cobra's built survive today. I also know that some were wrecked beyond repair, but different people got a piece or two (guessing with numbers on them). Now there are multiple Cobra's with a part or two from an original claiming to be the original car. I have heard that there are more claimed original Cobra's than were built. Thus the Shelby registry is trusted to sort all the crap out. Just because you repair a destroyed car, the tittle does not necessarily mean the registry will accept it as an original, from what I have read.

I'm guessing that an original Cobra would not be allowed to participate in any modern day races. Rules have changed so much over the last 50 years or so. There are some Cobras running in vintage racing events from time to time. A member does run an original in Autocross events.
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2020, 12:20 AM
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Double post

Last edited by olddog; 05-24-2020 at 12:25 AM.. Reason: Double post
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2020, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
I wouldn’t think twice about a Chevy engine if that is what you want. A nice stroker LSX block making 700hp+ On pump gas with a hydraulic roller and OEM fuel injection would be pretty awesome.
There are gobs of FE making 700hp and more. In fact Shelby built two with ~900 hp. The surviving one (his personal untouched Cobra) went at auction around $6,000,000.

People put EFI on FE too. You don't like FE? Well a EFI Windsor can easily make 700 Hp. Want something newer? You can make 700 hp out of a Modular to.

Exactly what is so awesome about it?
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