How do we get a company to make good tires for a Cobra?

[hinoonaz]

Either the cooper cobra or mickey thompson st's for the tread look, i like my SR's.. Of course we are talking about 15 inch tires and can handle the rain. I have been in he rain many times and do not push it in any way on the SR's just to be safe. Why can't a manufacturer take the above tires and change the compound for a stickier tire. Plenty of options for 17 inch tires so why not. A 2 or 300 UTQG would be great for the street. My understand on Avons is they do not last very long and age faster 10 to 15K . I really do like the billboard look for sure. Go to a large Cobra get together and see their choice. Every once in a while billboard or Avon show up in 15 inch tires. I will probably go with ST's or Nitto on 17 inch rims which will solve problem and sell 15 inch rims and less than Avons and new rims to boot. Stencil Goodyear is an option though difficult to get the right patina.
Goodyear now own Cooper and MT so make the tires stickier. Already have the molds. Just need to get to the right person. If i only drove 1500 miles a year who cares. I am now 5000 minimum so rain will be possible. My 2 cents!

[Hotoxide]

Let us say that a tire company makes a 15 inch "cobra" tire. If it has superior performance it will own the market. But what if the reviews are mixed or worse? Are companies willing to take the risk?

Dave and SNAKE65 - rolling on Coopers

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Hotoxide

Let us say that a tire company makes a 15 inch "cobra" tire. If it has superior performance it will own the market. But what if the reviews are mixed or worse? Are companies willing to take the risk?

Dave and SNAKE65 - rolling on Coopers

And especially since "owning the market" isn't more than a couple of hundred tires a year.

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

And especially since "owning the market" isn't more than a couple of hundred tires a year.

Most likely less than that and the buyers are always looking for a less than Walmart price point for an Avon class tire.

Golly, I wonder why there is no interest on the part of tire manufacturers.


Ed

[jknich]

Another brand in Cobra sizes:

https://www.milestartires.com/passen...s/streetsteel/

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by jknich

Another brand in Cobra sizes:

https://www.milestartires.com/passen...s/streetsteel/

Yes, but only S and T speed ratings.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

Yes, but only S and T speed ratings.

You bring up an excellent point...

In the search for a tire for any performance vehicle you have to trade:

1. Dry/wet performance
2. Speed rating (street vs track)
3. Mileage expectation.

The Ford GT tires (which I had an early generation of on my Cobra and the subsequent generation on the GT500s) was a compromise tire. The Ford GT manual was silent, but the GT500 manual cautioned that they were for use over 50*F. They were horrible in cold weather and on cold pavement. On the other hand the tires would last a lifetime of miles - 40-50K. As they aged they got worse. Some people reported that as a track tire they had pretty good performance.

I replaced mine with Bridgestones which originated with a class of Porsche and Bugatti tires). They were really "sticky" and performed well in cold conditions. (Still, not what you'd get from an all season street tire). The down side of that performance is that the tires wore out in about 5000 miles. I also got real nervous on wet pavement (never hit "the limit").

So what do you want? Good performance on the track or a 50K mile street tire? Wet vs dry? (Remember, racing teams use two sets of tires.)

The point here is that even if someone started making tires, they will really only meet the expectations of about 1/3 of the population...

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

You bring up an excellent point...

In the search for a tire for any performance vehicle you have to trade:

1. Dry/wet performance
2. Speed rating (street vs track)
3. Mileage expectation.

The Ford GT tires (which I had an early generation of on my Cobra and the subsequent generation on the GT500s) was a compromise tire. The Ford GT manual was silent, but the GT500 manual cautioned that they were for use over 50*F. They were horrible in cold weather and on cold pavement. On the other hand the tires would last a lifetime of miles - 40-50K. As they aged they got worse. Some people reported that as a track tire they had pretty good performance.

I replaced mine with Bridgestones which originated with a class of Porsche and Bugatti tires). They were really "sticky" and performed well in cold conditions. (Still, not what you'd get from an all season street tire). The down side of that performance is that the tires wore out in about 5000 miles. I also got real nervous on wet pavement (never hit "the limit").

So what do you want? Good performance on the track or a 50K mile street tire? Wet vs dry? (Remember, racing teams use two sets of tires.)

The point here is that even if someone started making tires, they will really only meet the expectations of about 1/3 of the population...

While there are always outliers, I think the way these cars are typically used is on the street in warm dry weather. Very few guys, I would think, take a 90" wheelbased, vastly overpowered (usually) non-top equipped roadster out intentionally on a rainy day. Sure, we can occasionally get caught out in the rain, but I doubt that most guys are looking for 15" rain tires for their Cobra. Likewise, guys who regularly track their cars most likely aren't using 15's to do so.
I think what most guys are looking for is a high quality, good handling, reasonably priced 15" tire. A tire that fits all those three criteria simply doesn't exist today. There is no way that the rediculously priced Avon can be called reasonably priced. The Michelin Pilot Sport 4S for example, which is a VASTLY superior tire to the Avon, is between $300-$370 per tire in 19" size, as compared to $400+ each for the 15" Avon that fits our cars. Of course we can't use the 19" on our Cobra's (typically) and even if 19" wheels are available (?) many don't want that look. Of course the pricing for both those example tires reflects the much higher sales potential and volume of the 19" tire. I use that example only to illustrate the enormous difference in the performance and price of the typical performance and price of todays tires vs. the "best of a bad lot" Avons.
Obviously Avon isn't selling lots of these tires, yet they still choose to make them. Goodyear isn't selling boatloads of Billboards, yet they still choose to make them. There has to be a reason why. I don't know what that reason is. Point being, if Goodyear and Avon choose to build tires that are not high volume sellers, is there not a reasonable chance that someone (BFG? M/T - Cooper?) that already has 15" molds and technology available, and a network in place to manufacture and sell 15" tires, can be persuaded to either manufacture a new tire or upgrade an existing tire that'll offer us decent performance without pricing that exceeds the price of current state of the art tires for modern performance cars?

[NROTOXIN]

"Is there not a reasonable chance that someone (BFG? M/T - Cooper?) that already has 15" molds and technology available, and a network in place to manufacture and sell 15" tires, can be persuaded to either manufacture a new tire or upgrade an existing tire that'll offer us decent performance without pricing that exceeds the price of current state of the art tires for modern performance cars?"

Cooper Tires is already in the game with Avons and the price is what their volume dictates.

[Danr55]

I believe that it would be an excellent idea if we all agreed what was a "good tire" for our cars. Defined by size, compound, aesthetics, etc/ What we want and what we don't want.. That is where I believe the rub will be found.

I believe for any Shelby product or replica, Goodyear will be the preferred signage.. If they would bring back the Eagle II in the appropriate size, I would be completely satisfied.

[CSX2345]

Another option: blockleytyre.com.

They produce modern radials with a period correct look for Aston Martins, Ferraris and Jaguars. Website shows availability for 289 street Cobras, so they may be open to requests for larger 427 SC sizes.

Cheers

[eschaider]

The biggest 15 inch tire their search engine brought up was a 205 x 70 x 15 which would be inadequate even on the fronts.

I don't understand the problem we are wringing our hands over here. There are perfectly good Avons immediately available and they are a high quality solution to the tire problem.

If you don't like the Avon pricing then go upscale in the rims and tires department until you find an approximation of the look price and performance you are looking for. Chances are you will spend the same amount of money ...

If the complaint is price and that's what it sounds like, then you have picked a hobby and a hobby car that you are progressively unable to financially support. If that is the case, then it's time to look for a more affordable toy.


Ed

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by eschaider

The biggest 15 inch tire their search engine brought up was a 205 x 70 x 15 which would be inadequate even on the fronts.

I don't understand the problem we are wringing our hands over here. There are perfectly good Avons immediately available and they are a high quality solution to the tire problem.

If you don't like the Avon pricing then go upscale in the rims and tires department until you find an approximation of the look price and performance you are looking for. Chances are you will spend the same amount of money ...

If the complaint is price and that's what it sounds like, then you have picked a hobby and a hobby car that you are progressively unable to financially support. If that is the case, then it's time to look for a more affordable toy.


Ed

It has NOTHING to do with what I or anyone else on this site can afford. Your statement on that drips with ignorant arrogance. The fact is that this Cobra community is the only car owners group that buys the Avon because in reality it's a marginal tire that just happens to be the best of a very bad group and for what it is it's insanely overpriced. It has nothing to do with whatever anyone on here can afford. It's about not overpaying for marginal performance and trying to get better performance at a price commensurate with that improved performance level. Nothing more and nothing less.

[NROTOXIN]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

It has NOTHING to do with what I or anyone else on this site can afford. Your statement on that drips with ignorant arrogance. The fact is that this Cobra community is the only car owners group that buys the Avon because in reality it's a marginal tire that just happens to be the best of a very bad group and for what it is it's insanely overpriced. It has nothing to do with whatever anyone on here can afford. It's about not overpaying for marginal performance and trying to get better performance at a price commensurate with that improved performance level. Nothing more and nothing less.

"Insanely Overpriced", "Over Paying", "Performance at a Price"......but it's not about the price.

767, "marginal Performance"....what are you comparing the Avon against, PERFORMANCE WISE? Do you have any data that suggests this is a subpar performance tire or is it "I think, I believe, "in my own opinion"

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

It has NOTHING to do with what I or anyone else on this site can afford. Your statement on that drips with ignorant arrogance. The fact is that this Cobra community is the only car owners group that buys the Avon because in reality it's a marginal tire that just happens to be the best of a very bad group and for what it is it's insanely overpriced. It has nothing to do with whatever anyone on here can afford. It's about not overpaying for marginal performance and trying to get better performance at a price commensurate with that improved performance level. Nothing more and nothing less.

A little sensitivity here 767Jockey? A casual reading of the posts in this thread have pricing as a recurring complaint, in particular for Avons.

Your personal attacks in response to someone else touching on what is apparently a sensitive issue for you adds no value to the discussion. If you have factual commentary it is certainly welcome. Personal attacks are the refuge of those who have no credible logical argument to table supporting their position.

If for argument's sake we accept your representation that AVONs in fact are marginal tires, that doesn't alter the fact that they are the best of the marginal or even sub marginal tires offered for our cars. It's sort or like saying the air is only marginally more than 20% oxygen. So what, that is adequate for us to breathe and not suffocate — same story for the tires.

With respect to overpriced, well that is relative isn't it now. If you are looking for any alternatives for the performance (which you evaluate as substandard) surprise, surprise they do not exist. Sooo, how much is that performance worth to the owner of the car?

For some people the price is simply not worth the performance and they don't buy them. For others it is and they do buy them. The casual bystander might read your commentary as the tires are not worth it to you. Your call, and you are entitled to it.

Disparaging commentary about the products pricing because you think it is overpriced is certainly your prerogative but again, to a casual observer it probably looks like sour grapes or yet another cheap shot.

Avon did not need to nor have to make tires for these cars. They chose to. I think it is an easy reach to say they are not a significant contributor to the firm's bottom line. In fact they are probably a push at best.

If that is true, and that certainly remains to be proven, that means they produced the tires for another reason and I suspect priced them to break even for the firm because profit was not the motivation.

We are back to a very small market, looking for a high performance component, with fairly high sunk costs to put into production. Some of the members of this group eschews a decent and at the current time best offering for their use while complaining about what is very likely a break even pricing model.

Now does something seem a little arrogant about your attitude and that type of behavior ... ?

I know you can do better because I have observed you doing better. If you have a good rational agument against what AVON is doing for us, table it and lets take a look.

Cheap shots, I have believed, were beneath you. I still think I am right and this was probably just a bad day. Am I right?


Ed

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by eschaider

If the complaint is price and that's what it sounds like, then you have picked a hobby and a hobby car that you are progressively unable to financially support. If that is the case, then it's time to look for a more affordable toy.
Ed

Not at all, Ed. It's statements like this that are arrogant and ignorant. Likewise, I have seen you do much better than stooping to this. The fact that one rejects the notion pf paying twice the price for half the product doesn't necessarily mean that they are over their heads financially, whether it's me or anyone else. Sometimes it's just common sense. If you'd like to pay $400 for a tire that is not nearly as good as most $225 tires in more readily available sizes, have at it.

As for Avon's I'm certainly not on a one man crusade to banish them. I couldn't care less who buys them. The fact is the only group that I have ever seen buy them as a preference to other brands is our Cobra group. If they were any good, than better handling cars such as Porsches, Vettes, BMW's, Lambos, Ferrari's and so on would use them. I have yet to see a single one of these cars use Avon's. Why? Because there are much better tires available in their size. We use them because, again, they're the best of a bad lot in our size, yet that doesn't make them good. If they were in fact good everyone would use them. Few do when they have another choice. I would simply like to see us have a better choice. I thought that perhaps others would see the benefit in trying to rectify the situation rather than succumbing to it. I see little support for that here, and that's fine. That's it.

[NROTOXIN]

AVON CR6ZZ:
DOT Marked
Tread Wear 80
Traction A
Temperature A
Speed Rating V

Post your tire specs to compare

$10 at McDonald's will fill me up just as much as a $50 cowboy ribeye dinner.....But, I'll spend the extra $$ for the QUALITY.

[patrickt]

From the stickers off my new Mickey Thompson S/T

235-60/15
Treadwear 440
Traction A
Temperature B

295-50/15
Treadwear 440
Traction A
Temperature C

[767Jockey]

I doubt that the Avon ranks at the top compared to many, if any at all, of these.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireS...earDiameter=17

EDIT - Look, if anyone wants to buy the $400 each Avon's, by all means have a party, go for it. It's a $400 tire that is simply matched or exceeded in performance by a raft of others for far less money spent. The only reason anyone here buys it is because there is nothing presently to match it for our cars. Find me one modern sports car that has them mounted. I have never seen one. It's not a terrible tire. However it's not state of the art, and it is not priced accordingly with it's so-so performance. It's priced exhorbitantly high. I am not saying at all that it is not the best tire available to us. It clearly is. However, the price is crazy for what you get. If a Michelin PS2, a Nitto, a Pirelli, a Conti, etc were available at $225 - $300 each, would anyone buy the Avon at $400 each? Hell no, and it has absolutely nothing at all to do with not being able to afford the tires or being able to afford a Cobra. It's just about not wanting to pay super premium prices for a less than super premium product. My original idea was to see if there was a way to perhaps convince another manufacturer to correct this situation. Clearly there isn't much appetite amongst the group to attempt that. That's fine, carry on. No harm no foul. It was just an idea. Disregard.

[NROTOXIN]

Ah, we're talking about 15" here.....unless you think the tires on your link will shrink to fit.