Weber Look A Like Fuel Injection!

[Garage10]

D-Cell
Thanks for the info. I just recieved an e-mail from Brian at kesler. You were pretty close in your est. price. That's too rich for my blood right now or probably ever. It add's up to about $4K more than a twm or dynatek sytem as far as I can tell. But, don't quote me.

[D-CEL]

Brent,

I was looking at the TWM system initially, it just doesn't have the flow I’ve convinced myself I need LOL.
The fuel system and ECM being the same, the difference in cost is less than you might think. In my price I have optioned 3” throttle bores that add $210.00 and a dual sync Distributor for $348.00
If you remove that from the $5890.00 the cost is $5332.00 vs $4675.00 for the TWM (http://www.thormotorsports1.com/) that’s $657.00.
I think the TWM comes with the Fuel pressure regulator, if so you’d need to add that to the Kinsler cost.

I know, I put to much time into this stuff!! LOL
You should see what im learning about dry sumps!! lol

Jason

[Neil O]

Hi all. This is probably not the best place for an intro, but I'll go ahead anyway.....
I have a Crendon 427SC which is running with a Southern Automotive built sideoiler FE. Currently the car has a Holley 750 carb.
I am waiting for delivery of a complete Dynatek FI system at the moment (rightly or wrongly).
Once I get it installed, I will keep you all informed as to the differences that I find. I will give you the "warts and all" information, as it may help others to decide which direction to take.

Neil

[Great Asp]

Originally Posted by Neil O

Hi all. This is probably not the best place for an intro, but I'll go ahead anyway.....
I have a Crendon 427SC which is running with a Southern Automotive built sideoiler FE. Currently the car has a Holley 750 carb.
I am waiting for delivery of a complete Dynatek FI system at the moment (rightly or wrongly).
Once I get it installed, I will keep you all informed as to the differences that I find. I will give you the "warts and all" information, as it may help others to decide which direction to take.

Neil

Hi Neil!, and I'm glad you posted.

What ECU did you order, or did you know you have a choice?

Dynatek standard is the Pantera EFI ECU (this is what I have), and I would like to know what options in the way of an ECU selection you can get from Dynatek.

The reason I ask is that your dyno/tuner may "like" one ECU, or be familiar with one or another ECU and you may be able to get that brand or model, saving a learning curve on the dyno.

Eric

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Neil O

Hi all. This is probably not the best place for an intro, but I'll go ahead anyway.....
I have a Crendon 427SC which is running with a Southern Automotive built sideoiler FE. Currently the car has a Holley 750 carb.
I am waiting for delivery of a complete Dynatek FI system at the moment (rightly or wrongly).
Once I get it installed, I will keep you all informed as to the differences that I find. I will give you the "warts and all" information, as it may help others to decide which direction to take.

Neil

Hi Neil,

Welcome! Yes, I would like an update when you get your system up and running. The more evaluations the better. I've heard some success with small block Fords, but I haven't heard more than just Eric's (Great Asp) car, in terms of FE's. Personally, I need more FE feedback. I'm in the process of evaluating EFI systems and the Dynatek is at the head of the list with TWM trailing right behind.

You may or may not want to start you own thread though, although this would be a good place too. Looking forward to your install.

[Garage10]

Hi everyone
Just to let you know. I sent dynatek an e-mail asking a few ? about a system for a 460 on apr 11/09 and still have not had a response from them. Not sure how many people work there but you would think a response within a week would be achievable. Not real great potential customer service. Eric, how did you find their customer service ?
Thanks
Brent

[Great Asp]

Originally Posted by Garage10

Hi everyone
Just to let you know. I sent dynatek an e-mail asking a few ? about a system for a 460 on apr 11/09 and still have not had a response from them. Not sure how many people work there but you would think a response within a week would be achievable. Not real great potential customer service. Eric, how did you find their customer service ?
Thanks
Brent

Brent, despite the issues we had during start-up and tuning, they always picked up the phone or answered e-mails promptly. Richard was in the mountains for a while between LA and Vegas, but he had no cell service. I would have to rate their customer service as "high".

Call their number and ask for Thomas Hank at Dynatek, he can get you started.

Eric

[Neil O]

Thanks for the welcomes guys.

Eric, no, I didn't know there was a choice of ECU. Didn't even realise that I should have asked.....doh.
The tuning information Tom sent me looked pretty straight forward and he has loaded it with a base map that he says will be very close to what I need.
My dyno guy has the paperwork at the moment and hasn't suggested any problems so far....

RodKnock, I will probably start a new thread with the install and findings etc. No doubt it will wander off topic like all threads tend to (I'm one of the worst).
I can assure you my true thoughts will be expressed on the thread. I am not connected to any FI manufacturer (I'm a book binder) and have no axe to grind about carbs.

[Great Asp]

Neil,

I did not know I had a choice in ECU's, and could not tell you specifically that there is anything wrong with the standard unit.

But per e-mails recently back and forth with Dynatek's Thomas Hank, I discovered that they have an upgraded ECU available, and as I posted above the guy making the wiring harnesses for Dynatek said he could make the harness for a FAST ECU if I wanted it.

The only reason I bring it up is that someone here might like one brand ECU over another, and I do not believe Dynatek cares if you want "Brand-X" ECU.

Food for thought

Eric

[RodKnock]

I've emailed Dynatek in the past and would always receive a response within 24 hours.

[RodKnock]

As it relates to FE's, I too was unaware of ECU choices. One TWM dealer sells the FAST XFI with their kits, but another TWM dealer offers other choices like Electromotive and Haltech. I need to do more research, plenty of time to do that, and see if those ECU choices will work with the Dynatek system as well.

D-CELL, you mentioned you wanted more flow than the TWM offered, although they offer many different injector sizes from small to large and they have 58mm throttle bores. If I may ask, what are your engine specs? Those throttle bodies look really big.

[Ken Oikawa]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Those throttle bodies look really big.

3 in = 76.2 mm bore. They're huge !

My 2 7/16 in = 62 mm bore for Hilborn.

[DougD]

For those with Webers, what fuel pressure are you running?

[D-CEL]

RodKnock,
I'm all about air flow. The 58mm throttle bores are only 2.283 inches
the 3.000 are 76.2mm. roughly 25% more area
The engine is an all aluminum 565 ci
Its an A96 block with 351 main journals (2.750 vs. 3.000)
forged Ford/Sonny Bryant 4.250 stroke crank with 2.200 rod journals
6.800 rods
TB coated spherically dished 4.600 JE pistons, 11.8-1 @ "0" deck with a .040 gasket.
Charlie Evans ported SCJB heads 2.25 intakes, Isky springs, Titanium retainers, 400 cfm @.800 lift. TB coated combustion chambers and exhaust ports
Danny Bee belt drive
ATI damper
Ed Pink 5 stage dry sump pump with a oil-air separator
Billet Fab 2 piece pan with piston squirters
Meziere remote 55gpm water pump (reverse flow cooling system)
Roller cam bearings with oil squirters
Blue thunder Competition valve covers with valve spring oilers

The goal it see how much hp I can make on pump gas, naturally aspirated.
To me, detonation control it key. So I'm working to control the combustion process. Keeping the heat out of the head and the piston.

Anyway, with the 3" throttle bores should offer no intake restriction at whatever

Jason

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

RodKnock,
I'm all about air flow. The 58mm throttle bores are only 2.283 inches
the 3.000 are 76.2mm. roughly 25% more area
The engine is an all aluminum 565 ci
Its an A96 block with 351 main journals (2.750 vs. 3.000)
forged Ford/Sonny Bryant 4.250 stroke crank with 2.200 rod journals
6.800 rods
TB coated spherically dished 4.600 JE pistons, 11.8-1 @ "0" deck with a .040 gasket.
Charlie Evans ported SCJB heads 2.25 intakes, Isky springs, Titanium retainers, 400 cfm @.800 lift. TB coated combustion chambers and exhaust ports
Danny Bee belt drive
ATI damper
Ed Pink 5 stage dry sump pump with a oil-air separator
Billet Fab 2 piece pan with piston squirters
Meziere remote 55gpm water pump (reverse flow cooling system)
Roller cam bearings with oil squirters
Blue thunder Competition valve covers with valve spring oilers

The goal it see how much hp I can make on pump gas, naturally aspirated.
To me, detonation control it key. So I'm working to control the combustion process. Keeping the heat out of the head and the piston.

Anyway, with the 3" throttle bores should offer no intake restriction at whatever

Jason

Holy Mackeral

I just have a puny 482. Next...engine...must...build...bigger...

[D-CEL]

Lol, yea I always laugh when I read the "How much HP is enough" posts.

Originally, i was going to build a 598 (4.500x4.600). But Lem & Charlie Evans talked me down. LOL
They said "Boy, that thang will light the tires like a Nitro funny car if you put a long stroke crank in it, you just cant hook that kinda torque"
I asked the guys a 460.com what they thought it would make. The low estimate was 800hp, the high was 950hp.
I want it will make 900-920hp.
It should easily run in the 9's at over 150.... so long as it goes straight......
My goal is to run that Car and Driver 0-200-0 deal. It would be nice to have a Cobra in the competition that actually brought a gun to the gun fight. You need way more than a Roush small block to run with a 1000hp Ford GT.
I think we would put a serious scare into those big turbo guys out to about 150-160mph.
Shoot, Ill even bring a Comp windshield for fun.

Jason

[priobe]

average is 3 - 3.5 psi

[lovehamr]

D-CEL, I still think you need to drop those crappy CJ heads, man-up a little and build one of these:



He he he !!!

Steve

[D-CEL]

Steve,

The new BOSS head is sooo sexy! I like them, just not it a Cobra. They need to be out where they can be seen!
I was thinking about using the block that's in my car now building a 604 (just sounds scarier than a 598) bolt a big 14-71 and an EFI buzzard catcher on the dam thing. A chopped, steel bodied, fenderless, hoodless, 33-34 five window coupe would be the perfect home!

Ok im in! wheres your check book!!

Jason

[D-CEL]

Anthony,

Kind if true?
To say that the EFI system made less hp because the fuel was “occupying space” that should have been occupied by air… confuses me.
The mixture of air and fuel (a/f ratio) to achieve peak performance is fairly straightforward. Chemically correct is 14.7:1, slightly lower in practice. If the volume of fuel was so great that it displaced air, the a/f would be hugely rich (read to much fuel). Combustion performance would suffer or not work at all.

Are you saying that a carbs make more power because they rely on vacuum and therefore the fuel takes up less space in the combustion chamber?

I think the article was comparing the dual plane manifold and a Holley Carb vs. the early Mercury Cast aluminum EFI manifold with a single throttle body and a small square flame arrestor. It successfully showed that the EFI system made less peak hp than the carb, because the intake tract was long and more restrictive.


Jason