Pick your side

[Power Surge]

I support going out and driving my car that I love.

From an UNBIAS outlook, I have to say this...

Carroll is doing what he feels he needs to do, to go forth with HIS company. And being the man in charge, if he wants his own club, he wants his own club. I can't argue with that, it's his right to want a club for his cars within his own business. And let's face it... if there never was a SAAC, and Team Shelby started up, it'd be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

However, since there is a SAAC, and it's been around for 30-35 years, my opinion IS bias. I support SAAC. And that's because of how Carroll and Shelby are going about this situation, is just an open hand slap in the face to all car enthusiasts and clubs that support them.

I've said it many times before. Carroll is an icon, and a staple of American automotive history. That will never change. And I will ALWAYS hold Carroll on that level for creating these cars. You cannot take that away from him. But that was 40 years ago. He says that he doesn't want his legacy going down under SAACs fingerprints. That's the BEST thing that could happen to him. Because Carroll himself is tarnishing his own legacy, and in the end, he's destroying himself.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by RACER X #99

Do you support SAAC... keeper of the flame or

Team Shelby who is trying to extinguish the flame?

SAAC

I'm an oldies kinda guy and prefer the old stuff to the new stuff..................

I admire what C$ did in the 60's, but I hate what he has done since the 90's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David

[Igofastr]

Sometimes it's a difficult decision, picking sides in a fight. You can't always be sure you have enough information to make a valid decision. But, this isn't one of times.

SCREW SHELBY, HIS LAWYERS, HIS CLUB AND ALL OF HIS COMPANIES.

[CHANMADD]

The most scary thing that I see going down is that there seems to be a rift developing amongst the owners ,supporters of both sides definately amplified by the heading of this thread and others.
That is very, very sad for all of us ......because ultimately its all about the enjoyment of the car ,as I see it. Yes the value of "original cars" is very important now, and will be even more so in the future.
This thing needs to be resolved soon!!!
All the owners of Cobras ,Real and Replica should be sure not to create a divide amongst ourselves!!

[John McMahon]

Wow...this is a first, I agree with most of what Sal said! We have made progress!

Personally, I have always been an enthusiast, guys and cars, car and guys. I tried my darndest to be an organized group back when I had my first Cobra. Since then, we've done the same thing with our wannabee racing, its about having fun.

But throughout, there was always an uneasiness with Carroll Shelby, but I (we?) let him slide because he was...well, Carroll Shelby, the legend. I still remeber catching him and his cronies using SAAC 25 for his personal gain. This was when he was bringing a lawsuit against ERA and he directed his henchmen to take pictures of all the ERAs in Sunday's car show that were using Shelby Cobra emblems on thier Cobras. He was gathering evidence for his impending suit. On that day, a bit of me died and I lost a lot of respect for the man.

So for the latest development against SAAC, I have lost all respect for him. Quite honestly, I do not think he is corrdinating this effort, but I think others in the organization are helping quite a bit (right Amy?). I find it hard to beleive that she was unaware (as she claimed) that this lawsuit was taking shape some time back. But that is just my opinion.

While never a true believer of how SAAC was run, I appreciate and admire all the work that has gone into this club, their devotion is second to none in my mind.

As we move forward, I see two entities evolving, Team Shelby for the new crew of late models.....

... and SAAC, for those who continue to honor the memories and importance in the automotive field, of not just the cars, but the legend of ALL THE PEOPLE involved in making these great cars so important.

[imagine2frolic]

$helby is his own worst enemy as Power Surge has stated. You can't take away $helby's past, but he gets no credit for the present.

Chanmadd,
I am sure you see this division as a potential loss of customers. No owner of a business would want to see his potential clientèle divided

CW,

That pretty much covers it in black & white with no gray. Great job on the facts.

Now the words Sunbeam Tiger, and Riverside confuse me. The company is Rootes Group, and Shelby wasn't much more than an engineer. Kind of like Delorean claiming Pontiac can't use the term GTO.

Is $helby going to make the town of Riverside change it's name, or just send him money? $helby has gone over the top. What it would be like to be the fly on his office wall.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

If CS is successful in dismantling SAAC, next on the list will be Club Cobra and anything of the like. He is on a tear, and will not be stopped until the law says so. Just look back at all the lawsuits he has brought on before, both successful and unsuccessful. As much as we may want to stay neutral, it just can't be so.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Thumbs down to CS.

[D&M2]

Originally, I was under the same opinion as some others as to why both clubs could not be supported. I'm building a cobra replica and my wife has a new 07 GT. I had even planned on getting her a membership to Team Shelby as a birthday gift. However, as things have unfolded, I could not in good conscience sign onto to Team Shelby.

For me, it is one thing to start a competing club and quite another to actively attempt to dismantle a club that has promoted you and your products for so long. I don't have a long history with SAAC having only just joined recently and have never been to one of their events. However, my wife and I will most certainly be supporting SAAC on this issue.

[amy B]

Originally Posted by John McMahon

Wow...this is a first, I agree with most of what Sal said! We have made progress!

Personally, I have always been an enthusiast, guys and cars, car and guys. I tried my darndest to be an organized group back when I had my first Cobra. Since then, we've done the same thing with our wannabee racing, its about having fun.

But throughout, there was always an uneasiness with Carroll Shelby, but I (we?) let him slide because he was...well, Carroll Shelby, the legend. I still remeber catching him and his cronies using SAAC 25 for his personal gain. This was when he was bringing a lawsuit against ERA and he directed his henchmen to take pictures of all the ERAs in Sunday's car show that were using Shelby Cobra emblems on thier Cobras. He was gathering evidence for his impending suit. On that day, a bit of me died and I lost a lot of respect for the man.

So for the latest development against SAAC, I have lost all respect for him. Quite honestly, I do not think he is corrdinating this effort, but I think others in the organization are helping quite a bit (right Amy?). I find it hard to beleive that she was unaware (as she claimed) that this lawsuit was taking shape some time back. But that is just my opinion.

While never a true believer of how SAAC was run, I appreciate and admire all the work that has gone into this club, their devotion is second to none in my mind.

As we move forward, I see two entities evolving, Team Shelby for the new crew of late models.....

... and SAAC, for those who continue to honor the memories and importance in the automotive field, of not just the cars, but the legend of ALL THE PEOPLE involved in making these great cars so important.

John, Your right, I knew there were issues the day I came on. I spoke to the SAAC owners at VIR and told them Carroll was upset. He hadn't gone to a convention in years. I told them he wanted changes, One of the owners in front of others said " we don't need Carroll Shelby" Did I know there were big issues yes, did I see the legal letter before it went out, no.

We at SAI, had always thought we would support what we built, there was never an intention for us not to support the new and keep the registry of the new. That was the plan from 2005. I have always said we welcome the old. There is a difference between the registry and the club. The team shelby club is for all enthusiasts, Our registry was started with the intent of supporting the new.

This issue between licensing and Carroll is just that. There are letters posted on the licensing site welcoming them to 2007. Where did it go wrong? A court will now decide.

There is much I can not say due to this legal issue, and my position. I will not have others post it all over the sites either. I will say this, they filed 3 days before CSl last week. They filed to keep his names and marks. That is public and the filing is on the Shelbyforums.com site. They don't say that in the posts above.

My job and this companies job is to build the company and to support the buyers of our products and to support all shelby enthusiasts. It is also to secure and keep Carroll's Legacy. The events we do can be called marketing, but there are different layers of marketing, we spent a lot on this last event to make it the best, for everyone to have a great time, it wasn't meant to replace any club, we support clubs all over this country and elsewhere, it was a way to give back for all those who supported us and waited 3+ years to get their cars and help us through the rebuild. We should as the company give more then a club, we should give back, that is a good company.

I am the company person, I expect I will never be considered the friend , but I am a car girl, I ANSWER EMAILS AND POSTS IN THE NIGHT. REGULAR COMPANY PEOPLE DON'T DO THAT. I have the passion and have had it long before coming to Shelby. I think that trait makes me better to serve the enthusiasts of our products, then a regular company marketing person. Gary Davis who build cars, Gary Patterson who has been a ford guy since High School all have the passion. We can do it better then those at SAI before us as a company.We never intented to replace any fan site or true enthusiats sites.

The SAAC club is a for profit business that has an issue with CSL and CSL has an issue with it. SAAC can continue to make me the bad guy, I am an easier target but Carroll is Carroll Shelby, he will not be ignored. He is mad. He has the history.


Amy

[computerworks]

In case there is any doubt about any "innocents" in this whole mess.

Robert and Sharon, the hired hands to run Team Shelby website, recently registered the domain name "saacforums.com" in an obvious attempt to hijack web cruisers from the Official SAAC site, saacforum.com.

This has reached new scum-lows.

Registrant:
Warner Robert
POB 42
Wyandotte, Michigan 48192
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: SAACFORUMS.COM
Created on: 02-Feb-08
Expires on: 03-Feb-09
Last Updated on: 02-Feb-08

Administrative Contact:
Elliott, Sharon rlane@warnerrobert.com
Warner Robert
POB 42
Wyandotte, Michigan 48192
United States
(313) 887-1279 Fax --

Technical Contact:
Elliott, Sharon rlane@warnerrobert.com
Warner Robert
POB 42
Wyandotte, Michigan 48192
United States
(313) 887-1279 Fax --

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.BLUEHOST.COM
NS2.BLUEHOST.COM

[Jamo]

CW

"...that place is dead to me."

Interesting phrase...think I've heard that somewhere before.

Folks...that was an example of arguing a point without personalizing it. Makes discussions mo betta and keeps threads open.

[amy B]

Cw,you asume you own it, a court will decide but SAAC was started in 1975 by Austin craig with Carroll Shelby's approval.long before current management on either side.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by amy B

My job and this companies job is to build the company and to support the buyers of our products and to support all shelby enthusiasts. It is also to secure and keep Carroll's Legacy. The events we do can be called marketing, but there are different layers of marketing, we spent a lot on this last event
Amy

Amy,

This alone speaks for where the current mindset.

As for Carroll, again, I admire than man for what he accomplished in his distant past, I loath him for what he has become in the present. My thoughts are not just my own, but shared by thousands of others, both SAAC and non SAAC members alike. When this is finally put to rest one way or the other, the reputation of SAI and the the way Carroll is remember will be tainted forever. It's not only personal to many of us who grew up thinking Carroll was a saint, but learned later that he was anything but, but it's business as well. I know you'll come back with something along the lines of "the future of our company is at stake", but is it really someone else's fault, or the fault of your current legal advisory board which is leading you down a path to your own destruction. Legacies are a double edged sword, which one does Carroll want to be remembered by?


Bill S.

PS: Since you are indeed reading these threads as I expected, I hereby give you written notice by this date and time stamped post that all information submitted to SAAC by myself is being held in trust by them for their use only. I do not now, nor will I ever give S.A.I. or C.S.L. or any entity controlled by either or permission to use that information regardless of what the outcome of both lawsuits may be.

[427sharpe]

The thing that riles me more than anything else is remembering how many times I defended C$ over all the years! When he lied about the S/C's, I defended him....just good salesmanship! When the Series 1 debacle drug out for years I defended him, even while he tried to cheat on paid contracts and retainer deposits. Even as I watched C$ makes money while our stock tanked. THAT defense is what chaps my arse the most!
Sooner or later, I guess the koolaid runs out of every cup.

[jdog]

Once, years ago, I had a a convict at Folsom Prison (I'm an employee) tell me he only hoped to live long enough to "piss on my grave"!

He returned later to say "Nevermind about pissing on your grave. After spending all of these years in prison, I swore I'd never stand in line again!"

Line forms to the right, "No fighting"!

jdog

[Excaliber]

SAAC being a "For Profit" company in no way justifies Shelbys attempt to dismantle it.

While it sounds cold (a nice sound bite and political spin) to say SAAC doesn't need Shelby, I have to ask myself. Why WOULD SAAC need Shelby, specifically, personally, to pursue their registry? Shelby Inc. or it's various subsidaries do not need Shelby either to continue with their registry. Will all the registry information die with Shelby? Will it end with his passing?

I am VERY offended in particular by one political spin statement coming the Shelby camp: How Shelby currently refers to SAAC, 'The company FORMERLY known as SAAC.' This is grossly presumptous, misleading and deragorty. It is dirty politics, which is fitting for the dirty legal action Shelby has taken.

This talk of Shelby 'taking the high road' is bull $hit to the highest order. Amy B. you are NOT taking the high road, if you were, you would resign and disassociate yourself with these people. It is the honorable thing to do.

"I'm tired of them and their holier than thou attitude", to paraphrase a Shelby quote. With each passing day my passion burns brighter than ever before. I to once beat the drum long and hard to support Shelby. No more, he is crook, he is liar, he has tarnished his reputation beyond repair. It is no longer a 'sad day' for Shelby lovers, I have moved beyond that. I'm pissed. I can honestly say if I was at an event and Mr. Shelby extended his hand for a handshake, I would turn away. My conscious would not allow me to do shake his hand, not out of anger or disgust. But simply because I can in NO WAY show support for what he is doing to SAAC.

[RodKnock]

Someone, I believe in Florida, recently (the past 1-2 years) tried to trademark or copyright the name Sunbeam Tiger and was denied by the court. The major Tiger clubs, CAT, STOA and TE/AE all spent some legal money fighting that one. I would be surprised if CS can win that fight.

It's almost like the Bloomington Gold Corvette folks trademarking the term "Survivor." All I have to say is "Oye vey." I've been a member since 1979 and I'll continue root for SAAC.

[hey,littlecobra]

It's all such a shame. There are so many many other things in the world to worry about.
There was room in the sand box for both teams to play.
I love the vintage, old Shelby things. I love the new Shelby things, too.

We just shouldn't have to pick.

It's basically changing ones reputation in an instant. I call it 'shooting yourself in the foot'.
I don't want to pick sides.
Very very unnecessary.
In this world we live in, we could have all played together, and nicely.

Yeah, 'he' (they) might just 'win'..... but at what cost???
Shelby Empire against the Fan Club. hmmmmm. Unbelievable the level it has gotten.
What a shame.
Kristen
(ps. I am not a member of SAAC, but i couldn't care less that they are 'for profit'. They are the watchdog group and have an important place in the history of Shelby autos.)

good luck.
and one more thing. Amy, i really enjoyed getting to meet you in Tulsa, and have appreciated our few emails, pm's over the months. I hope you are being able to remain out of this situation personally. You seem like such a great cargirl in person. I'd hate to see you get sucked down into the dirty dirty mess this is turning into. I hope you'll have a 'job' that you love when this is all done. I think CSI will be a difficult place at which to work. Sincerely, K

[rdorman]

I will pick, SAAC. Without even reading up on the topic, seems a safe bet to me.

[imagine2frolic]

I think if the real concern was the legacy of $helby. Then he should have left well enough alone. Since his return into the business he is the only one tarnishing the name of $helby.

SAAC, thier members, and thousands upon thousands of enthusiast raised him up onto a pedastal. I read somewhere that there are about 40,000 replicas. Who knows how many tens of thousands of enthusisast? These people could have been embraced, but instead are being pushed away.

I own a muffler shop, and have reworked the exhaust on several new $helbys. These people aren't even aware of his true legacy, his past. I have only been here, CC, about 15 months, but the tide is no longer a flood. It is quickly becoming an ebb, and the smell that comes with an outgoing tide.