Pick your side

[Jamo]

Evan and Bill S.

I've lifted Evan's site suspension and I'll lift the ban from this thread for both of you...if you just stop the damn personalized barbs and comments. You are both highly informed and intelligent members who can add greatly to this thread if you would just stay on the damn topic.

I'm asking nicely...once.

[RACER X #99]

Jamo are you offering to mediate this dispute? Fees waived of course. If so that would be a most honorable and generous offer on your part.

I know that one lawyer on the SAAC forum is talking billable hours so I don't think he is gonna volunteer to mediate.

RD

[Jamo]

Yes, I'd do it free of fees (not expenses) in a hearbeat...it would cut down on the time Ron and I spend moderating these threads.

But as I noted above, the most successful mediations I have been involved in representing a party involved a mediator completely foreign to the industry/issues.

Choosing the mediator should be strictly left to the parties either by mutual agreement or by deferral to a mediation service selection process (AAA, JAMS, etc.). In labor relations, we have taxpayer provided mediators...the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service.

[h2oman]

JAMO for PRESIDENT!

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by RACER X #99

Jamo are you offering to mediate this dispute? Fees waived of course. If so that would be a most honorable and generous offer on your part.

I know that one lawyer on the SAAC forum is talking billable hours so I don't think he is gonna volunteer to mediate.

RD

One of the things that Jamo said was, "Sometimes it is best to have someone who is completely foreign to the industry or issue." I think he might not fit the description of the type of person that he would like to work this out.

[Allan A]

Oh yea, Jamo would be perfect. SAAC and Shelby would be owned and run by Kirkhams in about a week.

[xlr8or]

Originally Posted by h2oman

JAMO for PRESIDENT!

It's better than the choices we will have in November.

[wickershaw]

Jamo, I would certainly defer to your experience but to you really think this is a "dispute" in a labor relations sense? It appears that Shelby unquestionably owns the registry which he loaned to the SAAC. He now finds that the SAAC has become respected and (perhaps) financially successful. Furthermore, the registry has the potential to do even better in future. Shelby wants it back, period. My view is that CS is an extremely bitter person who was never able to translate his success with cars and racing in to real dollars. (Think Penske, Petty, Earnhardt even Joe Gibbs) This must be very hard for him. Do you really think he could or would "....identify what [his]...concerns, needs, desires and fears are..?" If Shelby's real goal is money and the SAAC wants to "preserve the registry" where's the compromise?

[REAL 1]

Once again I don't think Racer X didn't read carefully what I wrote or didn't understand what I was saying. I thought my position was very clear as stated on the SAAC site. I even marched right into the Team Shelby site and told them what I thought. If they don't like it thats fine with me they can ban me if they want. I've been banned before. No biggie. This issue is too important to all enthusiasts not to voice your opinion.

I always have said what I think. You may not agree or like it but that never stopped me. I've always called it like I see it.

Would I be willing to help mediate without a fee with or without Jamo? Assolutely as someone else says. Not that I'd be asked but I'd be willing if I was. There are others who are very knowledgable (more so then me) who would make good mediators too but I'd be willing to help.

I'll be here. Let me know.

Wickershaw: Not trying to answer for Jamo, but its best that the parties identify their own interests, desire, fears and concerns rather then anyone else state them for them. We can speculate but its best to hear it straight from them. There is many times middle ground even where you might not think so once you start the parties talking and flushing out the interests and alternate ways to accomplish them. A mediated agreemeent is many time more acceptable where the parties have fashioned their own resolution rather then leave it in the hands of a stranger (judge) where many times the risk is "winner take all". There are weaknesses on both sides that each have to be made to appreciate.

Anyway, I'll let Jamo answer for himself. Sorry.

[saltytri]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Would I be willing to help mediate without a fee with or without Jamo? Assolutely as someone else says.

Ain't gonna happen, pal. No one is going to put you in a position to slip into the settlement agreement a stipulation that you have a "Real Shelby Cobra"!!!

[Jamo]

Wickershaw

Yes, I do indeed believe that the current dispute has many similarities to a labor dispute. My point was to indicate that even the most emotionally antagonistic situations (such as labor disputes) can be resolved.

Evan nicely explained the reasoning for having each party identify their own interests...it is an essential part of the process.

For the reading impaired: Interst-based bargaining is not typical mediation. It is a particular method of mediating.

One thing we find helpful in my world when we find the box of possible outcomes to be unacceptable is to think outside of it.

Oh, and Wickershaw...as I explained above, one of the first steps typically taken to insure the viability of interest-based bargaining is to have everyone use their best efforts to muzzle inflaming commentary about the parties, somewhat exemplified by your description of one of the parties in your post.

[Chaplin]

The business issues involved in this could be mediated and resolved rather simply. The real problem (as with many things) in resolving this will be managing the egos involved. If they are arguing about who should have called who first, that tells you something. We may need Dr. Phil for this one!

[Naumoff]

Why can't we go back 25 years.



YouTube - Carroll Shelby Interview and History

[Excaliber]

wickershaw, the concept that Shelby in some way 'owns' the SAAC registry not only leaves me baffled but with my jaw dropped. He never 'loaned' the registry to SAAC, they created it through years of hard work and research. While they certainly employed some items Shelby granted them access to from his personal attic; that is but a small fraction of the data used to compile this great work over 30 years. the bulk of the material (literally truck loads) came directly from Ford, enthusiasts and other sources.

There are many clubs and web sites that track the history of various cars, take the Corvette for example. The body of work these clubs have generated over the years does not belong to GM or the manufacurer, it belongs to the 'club'.

Now Shelby wants his own 'club' and his own 'registry', I have no problem with that. Let him build one the same way SAAC did, hard work, research, paper work from Ford and help from club members. Will Ford 'own it' when he is done? I think not.

[thorconstr]

What a sorry legacy to leave for a life. This is nothing new, it started with half truths to Ford and AC. Let's see, I have a chance to go down in history as a person who helped make awesome cars that will be remembered, talked about, and copied for decades to come. Nah, I think I'll go the greedy route!

[REAL 1]

Saltytri: Actually, no need to. Both sides already agree that the Continuation Series is a Real Cobra. Thats one issue out of the way.

[RACER X #99]

Yes SAAC does say CSX 4000 cobras are real and the reason they are in the registry is to make sure they stay 4000 Cobras and not magically turn into 3000 Cobras. You know there are guys out there who would do that in a heartbeat if they thought they could get away with it. Don't need to be watering down the exclusivtity of the originals with some "Johnny come lately" Cobras even if they are REAL1's

[CHANMADD]

"the bulk of the material (literally truck loads) came directly from Ford, enthusiasts and other sources."
Why in this case would SAAC not willingly share the information???
In the car business two salesman fight over who's deal it is!! The manager's decision...
mostly is ....Split the commission!!

[saltytri]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Saltytri: Actually, no need to. Both sides already agree that the Continuation Series is a Real Cobra. Thats one issue out of the way.

You're no fun when you sound rational.

[Excaliber]

CHANMADD, "sharing" is the key word here, Shelby isn't 'asking' he's demanding via a law suit. In my opinion he is asking for FAR more than he is entitled to. What is rightfully his will be determined by the court. That may include items removed by SAAC personel from Shelby's attic, with Shelbys permission, with comments from Shelby himself indicating there was no need to return it. Was it then a gift, which by law, makes SAAC the new 'owner'? Should SAAC turn over the personel information given to them over the years by past and present owners? Things like telephone numbers, address' etc.?

The sharing of the basic information is published in the registry, anyone can buy a copy and using that data could compile their own version. Documents received directly from Ford could be shared, if you ask nicely, maybe they would be! Current information from owners is strictly voluntary, an owner may or may not want to disclose to anybody anything about his personel property. And you can bet there are plenty of owners who will NOT want their information to be in a Shelby controlled registry or a SAAC registry.