Pick your side

[REAL 1]

Once again I don't think Racer X didn't read carefully what I wrote or didn't understand what I was saying. I thought my position was very clear as stated on the SAAC site. I even marched right into the Team Shelby site and told them what I thought. If they don't like it thats fine with me they can ban me if they want. I've been banned before. No biggie. This issue is too important to all enthusiasts not to voice your opinion.

I always have said what I think. You may not agree or like it but that never stopped me. I've always called it like I see it.

Would I be willing to help mediate without a fee with or without Jamo? Assolutely as someone else says. Not that I'd be asked but I'd be willing if I was. There are others who are very knowledgable (more so then me) who would make good mediators too but I'd be willing to help.

I'll be here. Let me know.

Wickershaw: Not trying to answer for Jamo, but its best that the parties identify their own interests, desire, fears and concerns rather then anyone else state them for them. We can speculate but its best to hear it straight from them. There is many times middle ground even where you might not think so once you start the parties talking and flushing out the interests and alternate ways to accomplish them. A mediated agreemeent is many time more acceptable where the parties have fashioned their own resolution rather then leave it in the hands of a stranger (judge) where many times the risk is "winner take all". There are weaknesses on both sides that each have to be made to appreciate.

Anyway, I'll let Jamo answer for himself. Sorry.

[Jamo]

Yes, I'd do it free of fees (not expenses) in a hearbeat...it would cut down on the time Ron and I spend moderating these threads.

But as I noted above, the most successful mediations I have been involved in representing a party involved a mediator completely foreign to the industry/issues.

Choosing the mediator should be strictly left to the parties either by mutual agreement or by deferral to a mediation service selection process (AAA, JAMS, etc.). In labor relations, we have taxpayer provided mediators...the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service.

[Excaliber]

wickershaw, the concept that Shelby in some way 'owns' the SAAC registry not only leaves me baffled but with my jaw dropped. He never 'loaned' the registry to SAAC, they created it through years of hard work and research. While they certainly employed some items Shelby granted them access to from his personal attic; that is but a small fraction of the data used to compile this great work over 30 years. the bulk of the material (literally truck loads) came directly from Ford, enthusiasts and other sources.

There are many clubs and web sites that track the history of various cars, take the Corvette for example. The body of work these clubs have generated over the years does not belong to GM or the manufacurer, it belongs to the 'club'.

Now Shelby wants his own 'club' and his own 'registry', I have no problem with that. Let him build one the same way SAAC did, hard work, research, paper work from Ford and help from club members. Will Ford 'own it' when he is done? I think not.

[CHANMADD]

"the bulk of the material (literally truck loads) came directly from Ford, enthusiasts and other sources."
Why in this case would SAAC not willingly share the information???
In the car business two salesman fight over who's deal it is!! The manager's decision...
mostly is ....Split the commission!!

[thorconstr]

What a sorry legacy to leave for a life. This is nothing new, it started with half truths to Ford and AC. Let's see, I have a chance to go down in history as a person who helped make awesome cars that will be remembered, talked about, and copied for decades to come. Nah, I think I'll go the greedy route!

[REAL 1]

Saltytri: Actually, no need to. Both sides already agree that the Continuation Series is a Real Cobra. Thats one issue out of the way.

[saltytri]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Saltytri: Actually, no need to. Both sides already agree that the Continuation Series is a Real Cobra. Thats one issue out of the way.

You're no fun when you sound rational.

[RACER X #99]

Yes SAAC does say CSX 4000 cobras are real and the reason they are in the registry is to make sure they stay 4000 Cobras and not magically turn into 3000 Cobras. You know there are guys out there who would do that in a heartbeat if they thought they could get away with it. Don't need to be watering down the exclusivtity of the originals with some "Johnny come lately" Cobras even if they are REAL1's

[Excaliber]

CHANMADD, "sharing" is the key word here, Shelby isn't 'asking' he's demanding via a law suit. In my opinion he is asking for FAR more than he is entitled to. What is rightfully his will be determined by the court. That may include items removed by SAAC personel from Shelby's attic, with Shelbys permission, with comments from Shelby himself indicating there was no need to return it. Was it then a gift, which by law, makes SAAC the new 'owner'? Should SAAC turn over the personel information given to them over the years by past and present owners? Things like telephone numbers, address' etc.?

The sharing of the basic information is published in the registry, anyone can buy a copy and using that data could compile their own version. Documents received directly from Ford could be shared, if you ask nicely, maybe they would be! Current information from owners is strictly voluntary, an owner may or may not want to disclose to anybody anything about his personel property. And you can bet there are plenty of owners who will NOT want their information to be in a Shelby controlled registry or a SAAC registry.

[xlr8or]

Buzz you are the master.

That is funny as hell.

[REAL 1]

RacerX: I agree that one reason SAAC wants to track the Continuation series is to make sure they are not confused with the original series. No issue here. However, in keeping track of the Continuation Series Cobras they didn't need to also acknowledge them as real/genuine Cobras at the same time if they didn't want to thereby creating two sets of real Cobras if they didn't want to. They certainly didn't have to acknowledge the Continuation series as real Cobras keep track of both.

Nice try though.



Now back to the regularly scheduled thread topic.

[dblbarrel]

Buzz you did it again, brilliant.
When do the posters come out.

[lovehamr]

Hey Buzz, can you put a smoking hole in CS's foot as well!

[Nedsel]

Jezuz, we are attempting to discuss serious business here, and some folks STILL want to bring it back to whether or not their car should be considered a real Cobra. Dammit, there are much bigger fish to fry here. Start yet another thread on the subject if you must, but please allow constructive dialog on the greater issue so that MAYBE we can accomplish something worthwhile, OK?

[John McMahon]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Jezuz, we are attempting to discuss serious business here, and some folks STILL want to bring it back to whether or not their car should be considered a real Cobra. Dammit, there are much bigger fish to fry here. Start yet another thread on the subject if you must, but please allow constructive dialog on the greater issue so that MAYBE we can accomplish something worthwhile, OK?

Ned,

While many of us have taken up the cause that that you and many SAAC members fight earnestly, there are others that care for nothing more than what their new Cobras are worth. I personally believe in the cause and will contribute greatly at the next SAAC convention in helping to raise money for the SAAC Defense Fund. Others, unfortunately, believe in nothing more than the status of their cars.

[Jamo]

Evan, and those provoking him...it stops now or you can all start enjoying a few days off. Evan...yours will be of a longer duration.

Try me.

[Jamo]

Heheheeee...yeah, ol Buzz does have a gift.

I ended up with even more hair than I actually have on my "Buzz."

[mrmustang]

Amy,

While you and I do not always see eye to eye, I do have to admire your spunk and tenacity. of course I do question certain comments you have made on other sites, but since you have moderator status there, I guess that is your choice. Just keep in mind that as a spokesperson for SAI and a moderator of those other forums that what you say is just as important as how you say it. I'll leave it for your to contemplate, as the posts made by you within the last week can be taken only one way in regards to the subject of this thread. On a personal note IO do wish you well.


Sincerely,

Bill S.

[REAL 1]

I think I have provided constructive dialog Mr. Nedsel unless you haven't bothered to read what I have been writing both here and on the SAAC web site and the Team Shelby web site. Where is your helpful dialog? Why didn't you comment on Racer X's comments. Guess you missed that!. My comment was a quick retort to the antagonist who wasn't silenced right away but it had to await replies to my comments before the threat of ban was lowered. HMMMM. Wonder why???? Same ol' same ol.

I agree with Amy in the sense that personal attacks, which many here have refined to an art, have no place in this dispute. Her response was a lady like response to a hurtful cartoon.

And Buzz, if you're a fair cartoonist and want to provide satire from both sides why not draw a cartoon from the Team Shelby's perspective directed at SAAC? They have a side in this argument too. You and I may not agree with it but they do.

[Naumoff]

What is Team Shelby's point of view?

What is it that SAAC owes Team Shelby?

Help me Understand.

LOS ANGELES — Carroll Shelby has terminated his company's licensing agreement with the Shelby American Automobile Club.

The 85-year-old car builder and former race driver has demanded that the club turn over its financial statements and all Shelby-related merchandise. The 5,000-member organization keeps records on Shelby cars and verifies their authenticity.

"They've made hundreds of thousands of dollars from my memorabilia and have never shared the financials," Shelby says. "I want the registrations and records under my control."
The club filed a lawsuit on Jan. 28 in U.S. District Court in Boston asking that it not be forced to turn over documents to Shelby. Carroll Shelby's lawyers fired back with a lawsuit on Jan. 29 in the Superior Court in Los Angeles County, demanding all documents. On Jan. 31, Shelby ended the licensing agreement.

The 33-year-old organization has been licensed by Shelby since 1999.

Rick Kopec, the club director, says Shelby can have the license back but says all documents belong to the organization, adding: "Shelby's problem is that he can't control us."

He wants the registrations and records under his control? What does this mean?
The registrations and records for what?

It sounds like he want the "Registry". Is this correct? How can he own the registry?

He ended the License agreement for the use of the Shelby name and everything that is licensed under his name. OK so was this 1999 agreement a set up to try to get control of the registry.
Can someone clarify this, please?

Thanks