Original 4 inch vs. Billet Poll

[Hoofa]

"what is the draw of tubes?"

The only tubes I really care about are the big ass 4" ones. When I saw my first Cobra as a kid, thought it was cool then I looked under it and saw the tubes, that's when I fell in love. It just looked so strong. But I also love new technology. You already know my solution to that. Although my new chassis idea is a complete departure from tubes too.

"if I am going to change the chassis a little...why not go whole hog and get rid of as many of the evil characteristics as possible?"
That was my feeling on the body, I changed the scoop, next thing you know the body was cut into pieces. Some people hate it some absolutely love it. I don't really care either way... I'm havin fun, looks like you guys are too. Can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve. What a great time to be alive, with this technology and software anyone can easily build their dream. Do you guys have a 3d printer yet?

[David Kirkham]

I am starting to see a pattern here. Forgive me if I am wrong. It seems to me the older guys 50's-60's are more original oriented. (Granted not all). And the 30's-40's guys are more modern billet, bling oriented. (Again, not all). That in itself is a good marketing point--of course, only if I am right in my observations.

David

[1ntCobra]

David,

One of these days I plan on having a Cobra replica, but I'm not sure a Kirkham will be in my price range. I always thought I'd want a Kirkham because I could get one as close to an original as possible. The thought of the billet pieces in the suspension and even the pedals had no interest to me at first. But over time, I'm starting to think of them as being cool, and that car does not have to be completely original. Now this billet suspension is just too cool. Well I certainly don't have the money, but if I hit the lottery, I'll take one of each type of suspension.

[David Kirkham]

No 3D printer yet, but my desk is covered in their parts. I have been thinking about those things for years and years. One day I will get one.

David

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

David,

One of these days I plan on having a Cobra replica, but I'm not sure a Kirkham will be in my price range. I always thought I'd want a Kirkham because I could get one as close to an original as possible. The thought of the billet pieces in the suspension and even the pedals had no interest to me at first. But over time, I'm starting to think of them as being cool, and that car does not have to be completely original. Now this billet suspension is just too cool. Well I certainly don't have the money, but if I hit the lottery, I'll take one of each type of suspension.

Funny, that is really how I feel about it. Over time I have just gotten to like the billet stuff more and more. When I look at the old welded stuff (especially when you have to pick it up!) I just say "pass" now.

David

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

I am starting to see a pattern here. Forgive me if I am wrong. It seems to me the older guys 50's-60's are more original oriented. (Granted not all). And the 30's-40's guys are more modern billet, bling oriented. (Again, not all). That in itself is a good marketing point--of course, only if I am right in my observations.

David

Seems logical...difference between some of us watching them race in their prime, and others playing with their Matchbox versions on the living room rug.

[Power Surge]

I dunno, I'm torn really. I like technology and advancement and improvement.

Maybe it's because this is a one off frame right now, with no real world testing. I think subconciously that makes people immediately stay away from it, and to go with what they know works. It might also be the fear of the unknown. There are plenty different chassis designs out there, but nobody makes a chassis that's constructed out of many pieces of billet aluminum bolted together. That may scare people. The car might perfom better than any chassis in the world, but with no testing behind it (stress, vibration, longevity, and salt spray testing), I doubt anyone would put one under thier ass.

Besides, that chassis is starting to look like a billet Corvette chassis .

Oh and BTW Jamo, FFR's frames look just like your Kirkham frame (dual 4" round tube)

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Seems logical...difference between some of us watching them race in their prime, and others playing with their Matchbox versions on the living room rug.

You may be right. I am the Matchbox generation, sure enough. I remember my most favorite (and fastest too) match box (or Hot Wheels, don't remember which) was a GT-40! I loved that car! Beat every kid on the block with it at the races. My earliest automotive memories are of mom and dad complaining of the oil embargo and soaring gas prices...seems like history is repeating itself again.

David

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

I dunno, I'm torn really. I like technology and advancement and improvement.

Maybe it's because this is a one off frame right now, with no real world testing. I think subconciously that makes people immediately stay away from it, and to go with what they know works. It might also be the fear of the unknown. There are plenty different chassis designs out there, but nobody makes a chassis that's constructed out of many pieces of billet aluminum bolted together. That may scare people. The car might perfom better than any chassis in the world, but with no testing behind it (stress, vibration, longevity, and salt spray testing), I doubt anyone would put one under thier ass.

Besides, that chassis is starting to look like a billet Corvette chassis .

Oh and BTW Jamo, FFR's frames look just like your Kirkham frame (dual 4" round tube)

Judging by every man (and a few women) who have walked through here, I don't think finding someone's butt to go in the seat will be a problem! Funny, if you were to see the car in real life, you might change your mind. Pictures, unfortunately, don't do it justice. As for bolts holding everything together...remember, most cars are held together with bolts anyway. Even connecting rods are held together with bolts and they are subject to stupid amounts of vibration and loading. All jet engines (at least the ones I have seen) are held together with bolts. We are lucky on this one that we have Loctite as well!

How does it perform??? Not sure yet. But from years of experience and having built over 650 cars, I have a pretty good idea.

David

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

I dunno, I'm torn really. I like technology and advancement and improvement.

Maybe it's because this is a one off frame right now, with no real world testing. I think subconciously that makes people immediately stay away from it, and to go with what they know works. It might also be the fear of the unknown. There are plenty different chassis designs out there, but nobody makes a chassis that's constructed out of many pieces of billet aluminum bolted together. That may scare people. The car might perfom better than any chassis in the world, but with no testing behind it (stress, vibration, longevity, and salt spray testing), I doubt anyone would put one under thier ass.

Besides, that chassis is starting to look like a billet Corvette chassis .

Oh and BTW Jamo, FFR's frames look just like your Kirkham frame (dual 4" round tube)

I put the bold signal in the wrong place...oh well.

I think folks see the truth in the billet chassis, and I'm betting it would be muy goodo. It just seems like putting a new heart in an old guy...sometimes the result can be, shall we say, a different animal entirely.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Judging by every man (and a few women) who have walked through here, I don't think finding someone's butt to go in the seat will be a problem! Funny, if you were to see the car in real life, you might change your mind. Pictures, unfortunately, don't do it justice. As for bolts holding everything together...remember, most cars are held together with bolts anyway. Even connecting rods are held together with bolts and they are subject to stupid amounts of vibration and loading. All jet engines (at least the ones I have seen) are held together with bolts. We are lucky on this one that we have Loctite as well!

How does it perform??? Not sure yet. But from years of experience and having built over 650 cars, I have a pretty good idea.

David

Don't get me wrong David, I am not knocking it. I am DYING to see this thing in action. I was just pointing out why some here may be reluctant to jump on the bandwagon.

[KM480]

There are countless ways to improve on cars of the 50's and 60's. Even wicked fast ones that were intended for racing 4 decades ago. But when I bought my Kirkham I wasn't looking for the ultimate 'supercar' in the sense of a McLaren F1 or Enzo. I wanted something that harkened back to the time when the world was less litigious and less restrictive. Having a car that looks like a 60's icon on top as well as under the skin was the goal.

The billet chassis is truly amazing piece and has it's place...However, I would not choose to have it under my Cobra. If you were to put it under a equally sophisticated and aerodynamic body that would be really appealing car.

There are just some of us that don't want a stereo or a/c in our cobra while it is nice to have in our modern car.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by KM480

There are countless ways to improve on cars of the 50's and 60's. Even wicked fast ones that were intended for racing 4 decades ago. But when I bought my Kirkham I wasn't looking for the ultimate 'supercar' in the sense of a McLaren F1 or Enzo. I wanted something that harkened back to the time when the world was less litigious and less restrictive. Having a car that looks like a 60's icon on top as well as under the skin was the goal.

The billet chassis is truly amazing piece and has it's place...However, I would not choose to have it under my Cobra. If you were to put it under a equally sophisticated and aerodynamic body that would be really appealing car.

There are just some of us that don't want a stereo or a/c in our cobra while it is nice to have in our modern car.

KMP480,

I do understand what you mean about harkening back to the earlier days. As for an equally sophisticated aerodynamic body, hopefully that is in the works one of these days!

David



Sal, no offense taken at all! I knew what you meant.

[RedBarchetta]

I believe for a lot of people (including myself), a Kirkham has always been "a faithful, aluminum bodied creation of the original" and about as close one can get to an original without completely breaking the bank. The alternative was always to wait in line for Shelby to get around building one for you (and we all know too well those war stories). And it wouldn't necessarily be aluminum skinned either.

To appeal to a broader audience (ie. younger?), the genesis of the company has evolved to more billet components. Nothing wrong with that, but there is a cost to providing multiple options to the clientele. I like the idea of having some billet suspension components (I drive a C5 Z06 daily so I get the aluminium suspension stuff). I'm just not sure I've turned the corner yet on having it under a Kirkham, which for me is a car that when you get in and drive it feels like 1965 all over again. It's supposed to be naturally raw, and not necessarily refined.

My $0.02 (which is worth a whole lot less than that).

-Dean

[Jim Doak]

While the billet chassis is truly a work of art, I voted for the original 4” frame with the billet suspension.

Like some others have stated, more or less, the “Cobra” is a retro car and as such, a state-of-the-art aluminum chassis doesn’t really maintain the flavor of the original. However, I’d love to see the billet chassis car in action out at Miller’s track. Maybe have a comparable, similarly setup standard chassis car out there as a benchmark...

[KM480]

Dave,

You might be pretty close with your marketing parameters when it comes to demographics and affinity toward originality or billet. I however would break that pattern. 38 years old and while I certainly stand awestruck at precisely machined pieces out of billet...I have even more appreciation at the sheets of flat aluminum or steel beaten by hand into beautiful forms.

I would love to see you expand your horizons with the company and take the billet chassis as far as it can go... give the mega$$$ exotics something to really fear...

But at the same time a lot of us would love to see more vintage stuff.

When I have driven performance cars of the last decade or two...c5/6 vettes, Mustangs, 350Z, 911's and the NSX, I have found myself almost bored. Yes I was doing 60-70 mph on some pretty tight roads, but the thrill was not really there... almost too easy. New cars are great and they can turn some great track times. But I like that "Oh Sh$%!!!" factor too.

I'm afraid to contemplate what I will think will be cool when I am 50-60!!

~Chuck

[thorconstr]

I wonder, of all the cars on this site, and all the talk of purity and exactness, how many cars actually fill the bill? Down to the frame, body, block, cam, carburetor, tires, paint, etc. I mean really, part way doesn't get it! 2, 3, a dozen, not likely. Good poll material here!

[David Kirkham]

Al,

You make a very interesting point.

Let's see...

Thomas Kirkham
David Kirkham
Jamo
Ron Richards
Mike Pack
Bert Brown
????

Not sure there really are too many more. Anyone else? You will have to be pre KMP0175 or so and Kirkham sold many of the first 175 cars to Shelby. In actuality, there are very, very, very few accurate cars. From what I remember, Shelby changed their cars very early on with welded uprights and other changes. I doubt there are many Shelby's that are absolutely accurate to original either. I would like to know, however, when Shelby actually changed things in their production. Maybe someone from Shelby could chime in and help???

David

[thorconstr]

David, You're up late! Are you on mountain time?

[HI Cobra]

David,

How about 142 formerly owned by Budman?
Looks like it is closer than most.
Now owned by me!