Continuing saga for Roush 511

[Got the Bug]

Ron,

One other suggestion would be to take your car to Stephen Bramlitt at Full Throttle in Reno (I believe he has relocated his shop just outside of Reno).

Stephen is a Roush dealer and has probably done more installs on Cobras, GT40's, and Coupes than anyone in the Western United States. He works very closely with Roush and has assisted them in troubleshooting and resolving problems in the past.

I would give him a call.

http://www.fullthrottlereno.com/index_files/Page358.htm

[csx4910]

Sandy,
Welcome to my club. I think I will call it RMTA or Roush Motors That Suck Anonymous. That sucks. Us and 2bjshelbys in Colorado makes 3 of us in this exclusive group. Anyone else out there want to join the Club of people with Roush Engines That Suck?

I am curious for an opinion on the flywheel issue specifically and if anyone had had that happen before. Todd seemed to want to blame it on the installation rather than the flywheel itself but the fact that I didnt have problems with it before make me want to question that. Any thoughts?
Ron

[madmaxx]

As long as the starter teeth and flywheel are alinged properly the bell housing would not matter unless it gets the starter up against something which prevents it from being shimmed. Geez to break the flywheel teeth it must have barely engaging them. I feel for you!! Roush has really dropped the ball, no excuse, a letter to Jack Roush detailing the entire ordeal is in order. Send it certified mail. Even if he does not respond you know he got it, although he would get to the bottom of it in about 5 minutes.

I had an issue with the leather on a lazy boy rotting, store blamed it on foam, blah blah blah, ceritified letter to CEO and I got a call to go pick out any chair in the show room.

[DWRAT]

Ron,
Remember all these people that are suggesting you ship it elsewhere is not already out $40K for a motor and looking at spending another $10K to get it fixed.(It's easy to spend someone else's money)

I fell for you and I personally would stick with Charlie as he knows what he is doing and it is not costing you thousands and thousands more.

[csx4910]

Maddmaxx, I dont have enought experience to know the difference but Todd from Roush said the lakewood puts the starter in an awkward position compared to the Quicktime and make it more difficult to align according to him. Has anyone else had that experience?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by DWRAT

Ron,
Remember all these people that are suggesting you ship it elsewhere is not already out $40K for a motor and looking at spending another $10K to get it fixed.(It's easy to spend someone else's money).

That was me. And I stick to my original opinion. Find someone that's THE ONE and get the car on the road. Nearby would be great.

Ron is nearing six months now. I spent a good deal of money on mine too and I would spend more to get it finished. I'm not an expert, mechanic or whatever, but flywheels and starters should be easy for the experienced Cobra/FE installers around the country.

[csx4910]

I sent the Roush customer service supervisor and Todd Andrews an email saying I expected to have the flywheel overnighted. We will wait and see......

[Fitz]

Sounds like keeping this thing under wraps and confidential is long past. Protecting some names and tasks has long gone by the way side. These guys don't like bad press. This forum is international so have at it. I would be so pissed with the money you have spent. No excuse!

What is the deal with Rouse anyway? Such total bull**** on their part . This would have been a great marketing situation for them if they would have stepped up.

[RodKnock]

Why not talk to a lawyer and have all three of you possibly hire an attorney who understands the circumstances?

I don't want to throw Jamo into the fire, but maybe he could recommend someone to speak to at least. Maybe create a letter, that requires action on Roush's part, to Jack Roush or other principals within the organization.



That would be the higher level that comes to my mind.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Why not talk to a lawyer and have all three of you possibly hire an attorney who understands the circumstances?

I don't want to throw Jamo into the fire, but maybe he could recommend someone to speak to at least. Maybe create a letter, that requires action on Roush's part, to Jack Roush or other principals within the organization.



That would be the higher level that comes to my mind.

Getting lawyers involved means I would never be able to be a Roush customer again. That is not what I want. My engine runs, it just does not run well.

As for shipping to someone else:

There are lots of people that purport to know about the Accel DFI system, but I send them things and they all come back with exactly the same checklist I got from Roush that so far has not worked. There is noone in the Denver Metro area that will work on it. Roush can't point me to anyone either. So bottom line is I'm not going to spend 2500 or 3000 shipping the car to someone only to find out that they end up exactly where I'm at today. If it goes to Roush I have some feeling that it will be resolved by the people who know the Accel DFI system in this exact application.

One of the things that Todd told me that it could in fact be the Accel DFI controller, and if so that I should consider swapping the whole unit for their newer one. This would put a cap on the costs. If it looks like it'll take more time (Time == Money) than swapping, I'll swap.

(I even went to a local tuner that attempted to adjust the fuel map, but now I am positive that these adjustments are merely masking the problem and not solving it.)

And when Walt Hane shrugs his shoulders and told me "send it back to Roush" I should have listened. He said that a year ago... Unfortunately I didn't listen then...

[csx4910]

Update - Roush jsut emailed me the tracking numbers for the Flywheel and another new starter they are overnighting to the shop. The Roush engineer is also wondering if possibly the lakewood bellhousing had the holes for the starter out of alignment.

Either way, the flywheel and new starter are on their way. I appreciate Roush stepping it up to get what my car needs to get back on the road.

I know there are those of you that think I am crazy, but I have no intention of moving my car to a differnt shop. I have faith in Charlie and Hot Rods by Dean that they will get this fixed and they are not the cause of the problems I have had with this motor.
Ron

[DWRAT]

Originally Posted by csx4910

Update - Roush jsut emailed me the tracking numbers for the Flywheel and another new starter they are overnighting to the shop. The Roush engineer is also wondering if possibly the lakewood bellhousing had the holes for the starter out of alignment.

Either way, the flywheel and new starter are on their way. I appreciate Roush stepping it up to get what my car needs to get back on the road.

I know there are those of you that think I am crazy, but I have no intention of moving my car to a differnt shop. I have faith in Charlie and Hot Rods by Dean that they will get this fixed and they are not the cause of the problems I have had with this motor.
Ron

Ron that's great news and I agree with keeping put at your shop.

[twobjshelbys]

It is interesting to note that if Roush were to pony up to all of our problems and solve them (I'm even willing to pay part of it) to our satisfaction, they would be heroes in this forum. [Actually, it might take a fourth person having a problem that is quickly resolved to prove the point.]

[vector1]

i have a gen 7 controller if you want to borrow one and you're confident it won't be damaged. i'd like to look at your program if you can email it to me, i messed with mine for quite a while before i gave up, i'm no expert but i'd like to look at it.

opposite where your starter hooks onto the bellhousing drill a hole inline with the starter ring and you can tell if something is crooked or not aligned or will not engage far enough. i did this on mine, although aluminum, and i'm sure it saved me some problems.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by vector1

i have a gen 7 controller if you want to borrow one and you're confident it won't be damaged. i'd like to look at your program if you can email it to me, i messed with mine for quite a while before i gave up, i'm no expert but i'd like to look at it.

PM me your email address and I'll send you the tune file (both the original from Roush and the one we've tweeked but still doesn't work). There are some parts of it you won't be able to look at unless you are connected to a box with an advanced key. Unfortunately the Gen7 software will not honor the key on just a read. The part that you want to be able to see is the fuel map.

About the offer of the loaner: First I can't guarantee that it won't be damaged, which is what I'm worried about. Second, it doesn't look like they used a bulkhead connector at the firewall to make the connections to the controller but instead ran the wires out. I'm not going to unwire everything to find out if a swap will work. That is what I want Roush to do. I can't be guaranteed that something isn't miswired, but I'm reluctant to tear into this part of it myself.

Remember all the woes started with the engine's Throttle Position Sensor cable (the adapter cable from the 8-stack to the DFI controller) being wired backwards. They tried lots of mechanical adjustments to work around this.

Thanks thought!

[RedBarchetta]

At this point I'd be considering swapping in a QuickTime housing (as per a previous recommendation I read on this thread). There does appear to be some form of misalignment and unless you're fully prepared to grind the new parts and replace them, it might be worth the extra expense to just deal with that now and eliminate it as part of the problem.

Not to mention that Accel is also getting a worse reputation via this thread, too.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

At this point I'd be considering swapping in a QuickTime housing (as per a previous recommendation I read on this thread). There does appear to be some form of misalignment and unless you're fully prepared to grind the new parts and replace them, it might be worth the extra expense to just deal with that now and eliminate it as part of the problem.

Not to mention that Accel is also getting a worse reputation via this thread, too.

I agree. If the same thing happens again, it'll be hard to make a case that the problem is in Roush's control.

[Mulv]

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

There does appear to be some form of misalignment

It may be a bell housing but you don't need to misalign the starter to chew up the flywheel. Mini starters have gears in different pitches and if you install the wrong one with the flywheel you eat the teeth. These are things that people know who work with these components on a regular basis.

I did not know that, the guy that does my Ford stuff told me... He also asked what clutch is on there and a bunch of other stuff that I cannot obviously answer.

I will say once again that there is no way on earth I would ever buy anything from these guys at Roush and for two reasons. First, for the kind of money you have in these engines, you should have twice as much horsepower and second, if you are going to charge double what something is worth then at least be prepared to get it right when something goes wrong.... I am also dubious that your repair guys know what is up here - that is probably because every 32 Ford has a Chevy engine and I'll bet they are probably experts on those..

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by Mulv

I will say once again that there is no way on earth I would ever buy anything from these guys at Roush and for two reasons. First, for the kind of money you have in these engines, you should have twice as much horsepower and second, if you are going to charge double what something is worth then at least be prepared to get it right when something goes wrong.... I am also dubious that your repair guys know what is up here - that is probably because every 32 Ford has a Chevy engine and I'll bet they are probably experts on those..

Come on, that's just nonsense and you know it. Roush charges a premium, but you're not paying double what a top crate motor builder is charging. Just not true.

[Mulv]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

Come on, that's just nonsense and you know it. Roush charges a premium, but you're not paying double what a top crate motor builder is charging. Just not true.

Really? I have a GT40 crate motor in my Mustang that with minor mods make about 400-425 hp depending on the dyno and it cost about $5500- to get it to the drop in to the car stage. A Roush 327 that makes 350 HP costs more than 10 grand... now what isn't true? 550 HP from a big block is how much? $42K? I doubt it... if it is 20 it is too much... here is a 521 from Ford that makes big power and costs less than $10K.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford+Racing/39...521FT/10002/-1


Think the pulleys, alternator and carb cost $30K? Even the fuel injection can be had for about $7K.. here , have another KoolAid...

Oh yeah and these engines work and have a guarantee that will be honoured....