FFR vs Superformance

[Mulv]

Originally Posted by steven566

Why is the FFR faster on the track? Is it lighter or has a stiffer frame and better suspension?

10k for the paint, eh? That must be some pretty nice paint!

What do you guys think of the Backdrafts?

The FFR has a better suspension geometry and is considerably lighter than a Superformance. I felt that the stock SPF was not really safe to take to the track at all and after the first session in it I never drove it more than about 85% on the track . I tracked it 3 times in the 4 years I owned one due to self preservation kicking in and having better handling track cars in my garage like a Honda Civic for example. The FFR has a much better frame and uses brakes for the Mustang which outweighs it by at least 1200 pounds, allowing for confident stops. Equal power in both, say something controllable like 400 HP and you should be able to lap the SPF about every 6 or 7 laps, regardless of the track... it is about 15-20% quicker.

The paint and finish on the SPF is unbelievable for a fibreglass car. I am sure that the FFR can get the same finish, but it won't be easy or cheap. As I am not a person with a lot of free time, nor do I have the skills so I would have to pay someone to do the assembly and bodywork on a kit for me. There is no way that they could take the FFR kit and produce a car of identical fit and finish and options as a Superformance for anywhere near the same money. Go ask what it costs to paint a C2 Corvette. I have one and the lowest bid number is $5k and the highest $15K that I have recieved so far and this car is completely assembled...

The Backdraft that I saw at the KitCar test looked very nice and complete. It is larger than an original Cobra by 2" in the wheelbase and made bigger in every direction so that it has a shape almost identical to the original but big enough for a full-size human to get in. You cannot notice this until it is near another kit on a 90" wheelbase.. you should look these over too. I have no idea as to the performance...

[TerrysSPF]

Guys, you're making it sound like an SPF handles like a 4000lb Caddy on a race track. There is nothing wrong with the suspension set up on SPF cars; in fact, it's very good. Are they heavier cars than an FFR? -Absolutely. But throw a set of good rubber underneath you - or put on a set of 17" rims and performance tires (like most FFR's have) and the SPF handles just fine.

If memory serves, Doug Reed's SPF won at Car & Driver's One Lap of America 2 years in a row. Plus, Dennis Olthoff won quite a few races (including the Run & Gun) in his SPF Cobra before switching to racing a Brock Coupe.
-I believe both Cobra's ran on 17" rubber.

[Maricopa]

The paint and finish on the SPF is unbelievable for a fibreglass car. I am sure that the FFR can get the same finish, but it won't be easy or cheap.

I'll agree with this. For about 4-5K you can get a damn good paint job, which in terms of smoothness and glassiness with be the equal or even better than the standard SPF finish, but the panel alignment and gaps won't be nearly as good on the FFR. SPFs really are in a different league in that dept.

[steven566]

How heavy is the SPF? I was under the impression that the FFR with a 302 is about 2100 lbs. Is this correct? I've never weighed my car, so I don't know, plus the supercharger has to add some weight.

[Gordon Levy]

SPF is around 2500-2600lbs. Most FFRs weigh in at 2200-2450 depending on the car. I had one that was 1850.

[greg schroeder]

Originally Posted by steven566

How heavy is the SPF?

From what I can tell my SPF is about 2350lbs, small block, with about a half tank of gas, no occupants. I enjoy a few trips to the drag strip each year and then just fart around town with a hit through a couple gears now and again. The car runs really straight and is reasonably solid. I did pick up a set of 17s with some Yokohama A032R soft compound tires for a club event on the road course at Firebird a while back. The car didn't work anything like the shifter kart I had years back, but it was fun and served the purpose for an armature driver like myself. I drove about 80%, which might be 70% of a good driver. If I wanted to get all hardcore on the road course or autocross I really think there would be some better options for much less money.

[boblyon1]

Originally Posted by steven566

How heavy is the SPF? I was under the impression that the FFR with a 302 is about 2100 lbs. Is this correct? I've never weighed my car, so I don't know, plus the supercharger has to add some weight.

From the on-line SPF manual, here are the following weight estimates:
roller only = 1840 lbs
w/302 = 2420 lbs
w/351 = 2485 lbs
w/427 = 2590 lbs
w/460 = 2645 lbs

bob

[Mulv]

Originally Posted by TerrysSPF

Guys, you're making it sound like an SPF handles like a 4000lb Caddy on a race track. There is nothing wrong with the suspension set up on SPF cars; in fact, it's very good. Are they heavier cars than an FFR? -Absolutely. But throw a set of good rubber underneath you - or put on a set of 17" rims and performance tires (like most FFR's have) and the SPF handles just fine.

If memory serves, Doug Reed's SPF won at Car & Driver's One Lap of America 2 years in a row. Plus, Dennis Olthoff won quite a few races (including the Run & Gun) in his SPF Cobra before switching to racing a Brock Coupe.
-I believe both Cobra's ran on 17" rubber.

The SPF will not outrun a stock Mustang GT which is 3900 pounds on the racetrack without a lot of fiddling around as I found out at Firebird with a SPF 427FE and a 4.6 '03 GT and a 4.6 '06. I have driven these cars and I will tell you that the one lap and Olthoff cars you are referring to have a lot of mods that the average owner cannot perform. Apples to apples the FFR is a lot nicer track car. So , yeah, a 4000 pound Caddy will handle better than a stock SPF - I have a Caddy DTS @4600 lbs - care to find out?

[steven566]

I'd be interested in seeing someone with an SPF take on your caddy!

[fsstnotch]

This thread is nearly the same as every other thread about the different makers... Everyone defends their own! haha Face it, aside from the people who have had several different cobras to judge by, most are going to defend what they know.

My opinion, if you like the BDR, look at the hurricane. It's the proper 90" and it doesn't use the crappy BMW IRS. Again, my OPINION! Please no BDR owners get offended! The BDR would be my 2nd choice!

Josh

[Bob Broberg SPF667 460BB]

Hey Mulv, What have you been smoking?

AZ Bob

[BDR427R]

Originally Posted by steven566

I think he will probably want something around 400-450 hp with 17" wheels. Probably something like all of the Backdrafts that I see around.

I will see if I can get him on the forum.

Steve

Steven,
I own a BDR and have not heard or met anyone else in the valley who owns one. Do you know of other BDR owners in the Valley? I would be interested in collaborating other Valley BDR owners.
For what it is worth, like the Factory Fives the BDR roadsters have a good track performance and handling reputation. My expectations were far exceeded upon the delivery of my Roadster. I with bias would recommend to your freind taking a look at a BDR. One of the many resons I picked the BDR is because of the longer wheel base. I am a little over 6'2" in height and fit in the car quite well.
Justin

[Fitz]

""I have a Caddy DTS @4600 lbs - care to find out?""
Let me know. I would go with you. You can't be any more nuts then Gordon. Give me a call and I will let you know if I can go play. I still remember going down the alley outside Gordon's old shop with Travis; I think we were going about 80 and I remember telling myself...."Self, what the hell have you gotton me into with this maniac!?" Then Travis said, Wep, it feels OK.

[BDR427R]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

This thread is nearly the same as every other thread about the different makers... Everyone defends their own! haha Face it, aside from the people who have had several different cobras to judge by, most are going to defend what they know.

My opinion, if you like the BDR, look at the hurricane. It's the proper 90" and it doesn't use the crappy BMW IRS. Again, my OPINION! Please no BDR owners get offended! The BDR would be my 2nd choice!

Josh

We all know what opinions are like...
BTY the "crappy BMW IRS" is what makes the BDR one the best handling replicas on the market. These cars are made for road course racing.
Return home safe.
Justin

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by BDR427R

We all know what opinions are like...
BTY the "crappy BMW IRS" is what makes the BDR one the best handling replicas on the market. These cars are made for road course racing.
Return home safe.
Justin

Yep, that's why I said it was my opinion and I didn't want to offend any BDR owners. I would never question the BMW's road course ability. I question it's ability to handle high HP/TQ.

Thanks for the wishes! Can't wait to start building!

Josh

[steven566]

Justin,

I didn't mean around Arizona, I meant around the "web". I will let you know if I run accross any in AZ, though. Thanks for the input!

Steve

[BT SNAKE]

Guys, there are two guys in this thread that I know of that can drive. What they say matters for a starting point opinion on any cobra for track work.
Gordon has the mechanical and a drivers point of view. He can set a car up to work on a track.
Now Mulv has no Bias. He drives, flat out loves it, and knows what works and what doesn't. He has no allegiance to any brand that I'm aware of. He would just as soon drive a BDR, corvette or the 4,000 lb caddy. When he is done with it he will give you what I believe is an accurate opinion of it's qualities or shortcomings.
I think the whole of all this is you have to determine the purpose or intent of the car. Then you have to build on that foundation in order to get the end result. Any kit out there can be made to do well with the right people and enough money.

I'm a Walter Mitty and I'm still luvin' it.

Come to Run & Gun and have some fun !

Hersh

[Bob Broberg SPF667 460BB]

Dave has a BDR with a Roush 327 (302 stroker) in it. Black with silver stripes. He is usually at our Saturday Cruise at 83rd Ave and Lake Pleasant Pkwy Safeway parking lot. If I'm not mistaken, it is for sale.

AZ Bob

[vettestr]

Hey Mulv,
I know you have owned and driven many different Cobras/Cars. You have also driven one of my Cobray's for Kit Car magazine and tracked Cobras on many occasions. So I gotta ask how the Cobray would fare against the Caddy?

[Mulv]