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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2013, 01:20 AM
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Please say it isn't so?
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2013, 02:32 AM
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id never buy a great wall ute
ive heard u need to do timing belt way before allowed time or they snap
plus supposedly they have poor amount of carbon in the steal for the chassis and they have been breaking
I guess its getting more and more where u buy a car cheap and throw it out after 2 years
just like when the ford ba falcon came out heheheheh
they are pretty bad
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:05 PM
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From Holdens Facebook Page
https://www.facebook.com/#!/holdenaustralia

Hi everyone,

Following on from our announcement last Wednesday that we are becoming a full-line importer, we’ve had feedback from customers and the public across our Social Media communities. Many of you have questions, and we’d like to take a moment to try and answer a few of the more commonly asked questions.

Before we do that, we’d just like to thank everyone for their comments and feedback. We have been overwhelmed by the support we have received. It’s great to read a...bout people’s favourite Holdens and memories, and fantastic to see there are still so many passionate supporters of Holden, the brand, our cars, and our people.

1. Is Holden leaving Australia?

No. We’re here to stay. Holden will continue to have a significant presence in Australia from 2018, comprising a national sales company, a national parts distribution centre, and a global design studio all supported by a limited number of local engineers.

We remain very committed to the automotive industry in Australia and New Zealand. While our business model will change significantly, we and our dealers will remain an integral part of communities across Australia and New Zealand, and will remain an important employer both directly and through our dealers

The sale and service of Holdens will be unaffected by this announcement and will continue through the extensive network of Holden dealers across Australia and New Zealand. Warranty terms and spare parts availability will remain unchanged and as strong as ever.

2. Why did GM decide to stop manufacturing vehicles in Australia?

There is no one factor. A raft of economic drivers have worked against continuing to manufacture vehicles locally. Australia’s automotive industry is up against a perfect storm of negative influences, including the sustained strength of the Australian dollar, high cost of production, relatively small domestic market and arguably the most competitive and fragmented auto market in the world.
The extent of the competition and fragmentation in the Australian market is highlighted when compared to other global markets. For instance, Australia has 51 brands of passenger car on sale compared to 43 brands in the United States, yet the American passenger car market is about 16 times larger than Australia’s.

Cruze is made in 11 plants around the world, most of which also export it. While there is some global demand for large rear-drive cars like Commodore and Caprice, the high Australian dollar means Holden’s export programs are running at a loss.

All three vehicle manufacturers in Australia deal with the same issue regarding the extra cost of manufacturing cars in this country. For Holden, it costs $3,750 more to produce cars here than in some overseas plants, including higher labour, transport and supplier costs.

Since 2001, the Australian dollar has risen from US50c to as high as US$1.10. The appreciation of the currency alone means that at the Australian dollar’s peak, making things in Australia was 65 percent more expensive compared to just a decade earlier.

The sustained and unprecedented strength of the Australian dollar, combined with the weakening of currencies of our imported competitors, means importers are at a significant advantage.

In planning for the next generation of Commodore and Cruze models due later this decade, we have looked at every possibility to make those business cases stack up. Unfortunately, there is no viable way to make the numbers work.

3. Is it because you didn’t sell enough Cruzes and Commodores?

This year, Holden’s new VF Commodore has been the fourth most popular passenger car, while the locally made Cruze small car is the fifth most popular passenger car in the country. We build and sell two of the top five best-selling passenger cars in the country. Clearly we are building cars that are popular with many Australians – to suggest otherwise is to simply ignore the sales figures.
Holden is currently the second best-selling brand in Australia. We fully intend to strongly market the Commodore, Cruze and the rest of our product range so that we maintain our market presence through this transition period.

Over the next four years, we literally have hundreds of thousands of engines and vehicles to build. We know our manufacturing and engineering employees will take great pride in their work until the very last car rolls off the line in late 2017.

And it’s not just the sales figures that speak volumes. In the past 2 months alone we have won the following industry awards:
• Carsales Peoples Choice Award, Best Family Car over $30K - VF Commodore Sportwagon
• Car of the Year, Behindthewheel.com.au - VF Commodore
• Australia Best Cars Awards, Best Large Car under $60K - VF Commodore SV6
• Wheels Australia Gold Star Value Award for VF Commodore Evoke LPG
• Wheels Australia Gold Star Value Award for the VF Calais V-Series V6
• Wheels Australia Gold Star Value Award for the WN Caprice V V8
• Wheels Australia Gold Star Value Award for the Captiva 7 SX 2.4L

4. What sort of return has there been on the investment governments have made in Holden?

On average, Holden received about $150 million per year from the Australian Government since 2001. Nearly all of this – about $120 million a year – was returned to the Australian Government just in the income tax revenue from the wages Holden pays to its employees. Each year Holden spends - on average - $490 million in capital, engineering and design investment; $490 million on wages, the vast majority of which goes back into Australian communities; and $1.75 billion on Australian supplier businesses.

The $275 million co-investment announced in March 2012 with the Federal, Victorian and South Australian Governments has not and will not be received, following this announcement

Since 2001 Holden has spent $32.7 billion in the Australian economy designing, engineering and building cars. In that time we received $1.8 billion in government assistance. Holden thanks federal and state governments for their support over many years. As we transition to being a full-line importer, we intend to continue to be a significant employer in Australia through our extensive dealer network, head office, sales and spare parts operations and Global Design Studio.

5. How will you support impacted staff?

This is a tough time for staff, particularly for our manufacturing and engineering employees, for their families and for their communities and colleagues across the rest of the business.

We know this decision is extremely disappointing to our teams in South Australia and Victoria. We will be working with our teams, unions and the local communities, along with the federal and state governments, to support our people.

Holden will begin meetings with our employees, the Federal Government, the South Australian and Victorian governments, unions, suppliers and other industry participants to develop transition plans for affected staff and the communities in which they live.

Our employees are great Australians. They produce world-class cars. They have made sacrifices to keep producing world-class cars. Unfortunately, the economic and market realities have been working against them.

6. Will Chevrolet replace the Holden brand?

No. Holden is here to stay.

7. What cars will Holden sell in the future?

We will build and sell two of Australia’s most popular cars – the Commodore and Cruze – as well as Ute and Caprice over the next four years. Thereafter, Holden will continue to seek out the very best from GM’s Global Product Portfolio and sell the very best vehicles to Australians. We would not discuss in detail our future product portfolio this far out.

8. How will you work with suppliers?

We will continue to have a close relationship with our suppliers and work through the transition process. All supplier contracts will be honoured as per the applicable terms and conditions. We will continue to work with federal and state governments and industry bodies on the transition process.

9. How will you support dealers?

Our network of more than 230 dealers across Australia has been a tower of strength for the Holden brand throughout our history. From a customer and a dealer perspective, it is business as usual. Holden is here to stay.
We currently have hundreds and thousands of engines and vehicles to build over the next four years. Over this time, we will continue to market our world-class locally-manufactured Commodore and Cruze, as well as our imported vehicles: Trax, Captiva, Malibu, Colorado, Barina.
Currently about half of the vehicles we sell in Australia are imported. From 2018, we will become a full line importer, seeking the very best from GM’s Global Product Portfolio to sell the very best vehicles to Australians.
The sale and service of Holdens will be unaffected by this announcement and will continue through the extensive network of Holden dealers across Australia and New Zealand. Warranty terms and spare parts availability will remain unchanged and as strong as ever.

10. How will you support owners and customers?

For Holden customers, nothing changes. Servicing and the availability of parts are all unaffected by this announcement, as are our warranty and roadside assistance programs. Together with our network of over 230 dealers nationwide, we will continue to provide you with exceptional service and support.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 12-20-2013, 02:05 AM
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Read this article and it reminded me what I saw in the late eighties when I was at Ford.
I could see these union reps thinking they were **** hot getting high pays for employees (even ones that didn't deserve it) but in reality making it harder for manufacturing to make money.
I saw this coming from then, it was just a matter of when.

ONLY $150 million a year will save Holden? Rubbish. The Holden Enterprise Agreement is the document that has utterly sunk Holden's prospects. It defies belief that someone in the company isn't being held to account for it.
Holden's management masks a union culture beyond most people's comprehension. Employment costs spiralled way beyond community standards long ago. Neither "pay freezes" nor more money will save Holden, but getting the Fair Work Commission to dissolve the agreement and put all workers on the award wage might be a start.
In 1991, the pre-enterprise bargaining award wage of a Holden entry level process worker was $462.80 a week. In 1992, Holden began enterprise bargaining and now a worker at that same classification level has a base rate of $1194.50 a week, a 158 per cent increase, or a compound increase of 4.4 per cent year on year for 22 years. Right now, base wage rates for process workers in the Holden enterprise agreement are in the $60,000 to $80,000 per year range and in recent times, "hardship payments" of $3750 were given to each worker.
The modern award for such workers mandates base rates in the $37,000 to $42,000 range. This means that before we add any of the shift penalties, loadings, 26 allowances and the added cost of productivity restrictions, Holden begins each working day paying its workforce almost double what it should. After you add in the other employment costs, I estimate Holden's workforce costs it somewhere close to triple the amount it should.
Many people who work at Holden don't actually work for Holden; they work for the union. Occupational health and safety people are given 10 days' paid time off a year to be trained by the union. Most companies do not allow unions to train their OH&S people because the knowledge is used to control the workplace to the benefit of the union.
Union delegates are also allowed up to 10 paid days a year for union training in how to be effective union delegates and two of these delegates are entitled to an extra Holden sponsorship of one paid month off to "further their industrial and/or leadership development".
Holden's rules on hiring casuals are shocking and unheard of in today's market. The agreement forbids Holden from hiring casuals except when a "short-term increase in workload, or other unusual circumstances occurs". If this situation arises Holden has to "consult and reach agreement" with the union. Further, "Engagement of the agreed number of casual personnel will be for the agreed specified tasks and the agreed specified periods." If any of this changes, Holden must get union agreement again. After three months of continuous full-time work a casual must be made permanent. It is impossible to run a business like this.
An ex-employee from Adelaide, on condition of anonymity, consented to an interview yesterday. He described the workforce as "over-managed", with one team leader for every six workers on the production line, when one for every 25 workers would suffice.
He said "some of us workers felt it wasn't necessary to get paid what we were getting paid to do the jobs we were doing", adding that their work is probably worth about "20 bucks an hour". A few years back, mates took redundancy packages in the order of "$280k plus". Workers are "like sheep" that blindly follow the union leadership. At induction, new workers are ushered into one-on-one meetings with the union rep who heavies them into joining. "It is made clear that if you don't join the union you will be sacked," he said. Union representatives "don't actually do any work for Holden", but rather make themselves full-time enforcers of union control.
He says workers are drug tested before hiring, but "only have to stay off it for a few weeks, get in the door and then you'll be right". Workers caught taking drugs or being drug-affected at work are allegedly put on a fully paid rehabilitation program, with special paid time off of about four weeks duration, before being let back into the workforce.
Australian workplaces have a zero tolerance for drug use, with instant dismissal the remedy, but at Holden "the union won't let the company sack" any workers caught dealing, taking or being on drugs. "If they did a random drug test tomorrow they'd probably have to sack 40 per cent of the workforce," he adds.
If the Holden scenario were playing out in a privately owned business, proper cost-cutting strategies would be used. If you have the will and can hire the skill, there are many ways to cut labour costs. The workers can be given a couple of years notice of significant wage drops and can receive lump sum payouts of entitlements to help bring down family debt.
Of course, these strategies are only ever used by business people who have no one else to bail them out. It seems Holden would rather leave the country than dissolve its enterprise agreement. The union thinks members are better off jobless than on award wages. Holden's fate seems sealed.
If Holden does leave, workers will receive the most generous redundancy benefits around. Holden says leaving will cost $600m. Most of this will go to staff payouts. The fellow interviewed agrees with my calculation: the average production-line worker will walk away with a redundancy package of between $300k-500k.

Grace Collier

Our Managing Director is widely recognised as one of Australia’s leading industrial relations experts. Owing to 8 years in the Union Movement followed by over a decade consulting to a wide range of businesses in the private sector, Grace is uniquely placed to deliver practical and sound results for both the business community and employees alike. Grace understands that industrial relations is not just about the law; it is about people.
Grace has more than 18 years of first-hand experience in the field of Industrial Relations. Grace is also a columnist for the Australian Financial Review, she is listed as a specialist commentator for radio station 2GB and appears regularly as a commentator on Paul Murray Live, SKY TV. Grace is often quoted by various other media and consulted by corporations and governments on workplace issues
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2013, 03:05 PM
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Didn't take long.

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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2013, 03:37 AM
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Not trying to pick over the bones of a carcass here, but,

Something just doesnt add up,

D488y2 posted up holdens facebook page presumebly written by one of their managerial staff and quotes holdens annual wages bill at $490 million.

Wikipedia states holdens workforce as of december 2013 at 2900 people.

On those figures each employee earned an average of $168,965.
Even the janitor and the forklift drivers.
Yes i know some will earn a lot more than others but thats the average,

Thats double the upper estimate given,

Whos Fibbing.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2013, 03:40 AM
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I think maybe the number of 2900 people is full timers, whereas the $490 million would include all shifts, casuals, etc. maybe?
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Old 12-22-2013, 04:23 AM
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All I know is that if we had to pay our employees double the award then we would now be manufacturing off shore..... Either that or just plain broke!
Unions are good to a point but then they just get too big & greedy & ultimately lose all their customers because they have priced them out of town... Sad but inevitable unfortunately...
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:33 PM
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Do you REALLY think it's our unions?
Or is it perhaps the lack of unions in the foreign countries that they (fat cats) are now exploiting.

Governments are in a bind (liberal &/or labour) they are caught between paying millions to Holdens or ford to supplement wages, or paying the same people at the dole queue.
What choice do they really have?

All this talk about how much the labour costs are, in my mind deter from who is walking away with the money. If 10 forklift drivers are pocketing $80k per year for a full days work and overtime that pales into insignificance to 5 middle managers who are raking in $250k because some big wig wants to palm off his duties under the guise of "delegating"

I'm no socialist, but when clowns in suits who offer little to no value add are walking away with disproportionately large pay checks, it pisses me off.

The marketing clowns who wrote the BS that was posted on Holden's Facebook page are... Well don't get me started on that.
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Old 12-22-2013, 03:10 PM
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Why do people working in Holden get double + the pay of some guy doing the same job in a privately owned manufacturing business. And more than likely the guy working in the small business is doing twice the actual work. If he doesn't pull his weight then he is out. Try that with a Union strong large business.
Someone I know very well (I won't say who because people would know if I said who it was) has a person on their budget that has been off work for two years on stress leave because his boss yelled at him.....once! And it's not a government job. This sort of sh17 is rife amongst the lazy ass lawyer friendly a55es that populate the planet. Fair days pay for a fair days work. And $80k for unskilled labour is ridiculous, especially in a non remote area. I have Aussie friends (Senior Engineers, 10 years experience) working in a consulting firm in Vancouver, Canada, that are earning the same money.
Is it the unions????? Of course not, Holden and Ford just doubled the wages of their workers because they thought they were doing such a great job and they were really nice people.
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Old 12-22-2013, 04:14 PM
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To me it can be only one of two things,

That figure of $490 million for wages is BS, TOTAL exaggeration by holden,
They have always been good at spinning a yarn to gullible people.

OR if its true, The Fatcat management at holden are paying themselves huge fees to run an inept company.
Probably the most likely senario here.
Management salarys are never disclosed.

I would bet my leftie that the workers didnt earn $169,000 a year.

If holden were happy to pay $80,000 a year to their workers, its because they were paying themselves multiple times that on the gravy train of our taxpayers money.
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Old 12-23-2013, 04:57 AM
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It keeps showing me that TOMCAT has added to the thread...but nothing there?

What have you done Tom...broken it?

Cheers
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:36 PM
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Yea dunno, posted that yesterday, it said i did but nothing there, never had that happen before.
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Old 01-20-2014, 04:57 AM
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This shows just what a small fish the Australian motor vehicle manufacturing industry is in terms of how GM sees its future. It's a wonder that they kept manufacturing in this country for as long as they did.

General Motors is becoming China Motors - YouTube
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donunder View Post
This shows just what a small fish the Australian motor vehicle manufacturing industry is in terms of how GM sees its future. It's a wonder that they kept manufacturing in this country for as long as they did.

General Motors is becoming China Motors - YouTube
What annoys me to no end is that companies like; Holden, KFC and Maccas, all try to make you believe (either blatantly or subtly) they are Australian owned enterprises.

An example is the current Holden add.
We're Here To Stay - YouTube

There's so much spin in this, I'd prefer to never buy or deal with companies who are as dishonest as this. They remind me too much of politicians.
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Old 01-20-2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
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What annoys me to no end is that companies like; Holden, KFC and Maccas, all try to make you believe (either blatantly or subtly) they are Australian owned enterprises.
Exactly right -- and the sound track of this vid shows that even our popular "football meat pies kangaroos and Holden cars" jingle was a direct steal from their "baseball hot dogs apple pie and Chevrolet" campaign.

Good riddance I say, and as soon as our "local" manufacturers disappear there will be no need to "protect" a defunct industry. Accordingly there should be no excuse for our vehicle pricing not to assume parity with that of overseas markets. Dreaming??
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:51 PM
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Yay I can't wait to be able to buy a Kia or a Hyundai..... Or maybe one of those excellent great walls.....

Why hasn't Toyota suffered the tall poppy syndrome yet??

You all seem to be saying you would rather buy a Kia than an imported Holden or Ford.....

Apparently it doesn't matter what badge it wears, they're all the same right, bit like an LS in a Cobra...

WTF?
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:35 PM
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If I had to drive a Korean car, a 5L 429HP R-Spec E-Class knock off would be OK.
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/genesis/comparison.aspx
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:35 AM
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Why focus on Asian brands that have already saturated the market Ash? If changes to the local production landscape will allow limited production European brands/models in to the Australian market, is that the worst thing in the world?
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:41 AM
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I would always buy a Toyota before a gm or ford
quality is just not there

in the end people have no money
they want to buy cheap cars that they throw away after afew years

it is just to expensive to live here so most companies are pissing of to the land of the one dollar an hour wages
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