End of the line for Holden

[sambo]

Originally Posted by Towmaster

bit like an LS in a Cobra... WTF?

Don't you mean hot rods with glass bodies shaped like an AC Cobra?

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Towmaster

You all seem to be saying you would rather buy a Kia than an imported Holden or Ford.

WTF?

Huh?
Sorry, but all I've said is I ain't buying from a company that Bullsh!ts me.

If you want to buy a Holden or other, go ahead, knock yourself out

As for LS in a cobra - I let you in on a badly kept secret...
No-one actually cares. There are those (like me), who tease and poke the bear... seemingly sometimes people take the bait.

If it makes you feel better, I'd be happy to have an LS powered cobra in my garage.
Are you offering one.

[Donunder]

Ash the point I was trying to make is this --- If I were fortunate enough to have say $60K to spend on a car at the moment I could choose a mid to top range Commodore for instance or an entry level euro, say.

The Commodore would be the usual three to four years behind the euros in terms of technological advancement, would be noticeably deficient in measurable areas such as Noise Vibration and Harshness, and would depreciate at much the same percentage rate.

If the Holden product were not manufactured in Australia there would morally be no need for tariff protection, introduced to protect a product unable to compete with overseas cars in just about every aspect, and there would be no need for a luxury car tax, originally introduced to deter buyers from buying high-end imports and to buy the local product.

So... with the phasing out of the luxury car tax (if the govt could bring itself to do the right thing) and the abolition of tariff protection, my $60K suddenly allows me to buy an E Class Merc or an Audi A5 or a 5 series BMW, and yes even the Hyundai Genesis, mentioned earlier, with plenty of change left over.

For years we've been funnelled towards the local product, even though it has been foreign owned and has been showered with huge sums by the govt to remain viable, and, and I acknowledge the importance of this, to provide employment for lots of Australians who in many instances would struggle to hold down jobs outside of the boring repetitive work found on an inefficient and outmoded vehicle asembly line.

The You Tube I posted reveals that GM has also been sucking huge amounts from the US govt. Detroit has collapsed and GM now produce 70% of vehicles off-shore because it can't produce them in the US due to this same inefficiency, which has forced it to establish new plants in emerging industrial countries such as China where, and again I acknowledge the problem, labour costs are lower, and computerised and robotised assembly produces a far superior product at the expense of providing employment to many.

This vid of the new Tesla plant in California shows the future of car assembly, and the production process is similar to that of many euro and Asian car makers, who also have moved off-shore in many instances -- Honda to Thailand, BMW to Turkey etc.

Tesla Motors Part 1: Behind the Scenes of how the Tesla Model S is Made-The Window-WIRED - YouTube

The big three, Ford GMH and Toyota have unanimously declared that making cars in Australia is unsustainable. The govt now must accept that fact, sooner rather than later, and start making plans to relocate the many thousands of unskilled workers in this industry who will be displaced as a result of our being conned for so long by the US companies into not updating and modernising their assembly plants. And for not making, for many years, the cars that Australians have been wanting to buy. How long did it take them to get into the SUV market? How many taxis are still Falcons or Commodores? Too slow --they were caught napping by the Asians.

It's a global economy now, and our cars will be made in countries where technology has been embraced. We had the chance.....

[darkside]

not sure how reliable the source is but was told few days ago that gm wants to sell off the holden name and everything it associated with(commodore etc)so if true then gm usa really had no intentions of staying here regardless of guvmint muney just looking for more handouts..noice one fellas

as for the comment about toyotas,the hilux hasnt been changed in nearly 8 yrs....prolly out back of factory facelifting yur 5yr old trade in and reselling it ..certainly know how to make a buck them asian fellas......doc

[Aussie Mike]

Originally Posted by darkside

as for the comment about toyotas,the hilux hasnt been changed in nearly 8 yrs....prolly out back of factory facelifting yur 5yr old trade in and reselling it ..certainly know how to make a buck them asian fellas......doc

I don't have a problem with the Hilux not changing. If the design works why change it? Otherwise it's just change for change sake. A marketing scam to make people buy the fancy new model when in reality the old one was just as good for it's intended purpose.

This is one of the things thing that annoys me about the car industry. They have a redesign every couple of years and make a whole new car. While it might be nice to see a completely new looking Commodore it really f#cks the value of 2nd hand cars.

For a car I would buy myself I prefer the ones that have longer runs of the same model with just evolutionary changes. The Europeans were pretty good at this for a long time and I think that's part of the reason a lot hold their value better than the local equivalents. That seems to be changing now as they adopt this new marketing model so not to be left behind in the money grab.

To me it makes more sense for manufacturers to get as much life out of the tooling they can. The industry has made a rod for it's own back with this constant change for change sake marketing model. These major redesigns cost a lot in R&D and then retooling the lines. Costs that need to be born by the folks buying the cars so the price goes up. Since the customers won't take too much of this there is pressure to reduce costs by moving production to countries with cheap labour.

I hate this current throw away mentality that has gotten into everything we buy. It's driven by the marketing departments of companies that make stuff because they want to sell you more sh!t you don't need.

Your average consumer needs to take a good look at themselves. There's the idea that once a car hits 100,000KM and is out of warranty it's worn out "Got to get rid of it, it's costing me too much money!". What a bunch of sh!t. If they added up the real cost it'd be a hell of a lot cheaper to keep that older car on the road. Think of the depreciation hit you take on selling the old car and then fronting up the extra cash for the new and improved one. All so you can have the latest and greatest.

"But think of the money I'll save! The new one does 10L/100 when the old one used 11L/100" they cry. Never mind you just blew $30K in the change over. I'll try to put that into perspective...

$1.50L for reg unleaded.
10L/100KM = $15 per 100KM
$15,000/100,000KM

11L/100 =$16.50 per 100KM
$16.500/100,000KM

$1500 per 100,000KM better off. That means you need to drive about a million KM before you are in front of the $30K dropped in the change over. Given the average punter seems to reckons a car is worn out by 100,000KM. Well....

End of rant.

[saturnkk]

Originally Posted by sideshow

I would always buy a Toyota before a gm or ford
quality is just not there

I guess it depends on what you are buying...

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Aussie Mike

I don't have a problem with the Hilux not changing. If the design works why change it? Otherwise it's just change for change sake. A marketing scam to make people buy the fancy new model when in reality the old one was just as good for it's intended purpose.

This is one of the things thing that annoys me about the car industry.......

.............That means you need to drive about a million KM before you are in front of the $30K dropped in the change over. Given the average punter seems to reckons a car is worn out by 100,000KM. Well....

End of rant.

With GOLD like that, I wish you had a bigger soap box!

Well said kind Sir.


PS: Thanks for the PM & Congrats.

[Towmaster]

My little 'dig' seems to have gotten the desired responses..

As an Australian manufacturer that exports to Europe the USA and Sth Africa etc it concerns me that our kids will have no future...

What happens when we make nothing here? The farmers are getting squeezed and many walking off their properties. Big manufacturing can't afford to pay wages, coal will be banned.... We have already lost all our call centres... All the big banks forms processing gets emailed every night to a 'cheaper' country, it is processed and then emailed back by start of business next day. Our NAB bank manager told me that 4 years ago. Surely the trend just can't continue?

My little dig was simply to the effect of why do we always seem to slag off the bigger companies that have been here employing people for over a hundred years in favour of a Johnny come laty that could leave in an instant (Opel for instance)

Don have you driven a VF Commodore? If you read the motoring journals.... They seem to be not so far behind, if at all.
My Father in laws 2012 330d coupe is a really nice car and goes very well for a diesel, but it should for a $120,000 car.... But it can't park itself!
My wife's 2009 120d is a great car that has so many gadgets here and there that you read up in the book and use them once..... Then never again... Trust me it's just like any other car, you just get in and drive, set the cruise & AC....

Kindling... Spark.....

[Towmaster]

Originally Posted by Dimis

With GOLD like that, I wish you had a bigger soap box!

Well said kind Sir.


PS: Thanks for the PM & Congrats.

Then when the engine wears out you just slot in a 6 litre V8....
Maybe there won't be too many more of them in the future either..

[Aussie Mike]

Originally Posted by Towmaster

Then when the engine wears out you just slot in a 6 litre V8....
Maybe there won't be too many more of them in the future either..

Might be a 429HP 5.0L Hyundai V8

You don't hear much about people rebuilding the engine in their car these days. Fitting a reconditioned engine at some point was a pretty normal and expected thing.

I've always thought for cars it's better to maintain and rebuild existing cars than make new ones. They go on about the new cars making less pollution and being better for the environment but that's bullsh!t too. No one considers the pollution created in making all the materials and manufacturing the car. China is pouring out tons of greenhouse gasses making the steel and plastics that go into manufacturing new cars. then there's the impact of digging the stuff out of the ground and processing it. All so greenie Joe public can drive along in his hybrid with a smug smile on his face as he imagines how he's saving the rain forest and the orangutans and stuff. All the while completely oblivious to what they are doing to the environment digging all the nasty chemicals out of the ground to make the bloody thing.

The greener option is keeping an old car tuned and running cleanly or converting it to an alternative fuel.

[Towmaster]

Not to mention the batteries they throw away in those Hybrids every 5 years...

[750hp]

Originally Posted by Towmaster

My Father in laws 2012 330d coupe....

My wife's 2009 120d...

Ash, you need to talk to your family about supporting local car manufacturers rather than those European companies.

[BMK]

Oooops sorry guilty also..

[Towmaster]

Originally Posted by 750hp

Ash, you need to talk to your family about supporting local car manufacturers rather than those European companies.

Have you ever tried to tell a Greek ANYTHING?

[Towmaster]

On a lighter side I personally have a 2007 Rodeo that was re engined (6 litre V8) and engineered by me, a Cobra I built myself from locally sourced products (mostly) and a V8 Supercar that was built in Melbourne...... and is currently being re engined by me.... Oh and a car trailer that was also built in Melbourne...

I am so proud of my green ness.......

[Aussie Mike]

Originally Posted by Towmaster

On a lighter side I personally have a 2007 Rodeo that was re engined (6 litre V8) and engineered by me, a Cobra I built myself from locally sourced products (mostly) and a V8 Supercar that was built in Melbourne...... and is currently being re engined by me.... Oh and a car trailer that was also built in Melbourne...

I am so proud of my green ness.......

Glad to see you are making the effort to recycle

[Wazza]

Originally Posted by Towmaster

Have you ever tried to tell a Greek ANYTHING?

Touch your toes ????

[guye]

Originally Posted by Aussie Mike

...I've always thought for cars it's better to maintain and rebuild existing cars than make new ones. ...

Totally agree Mike.

I'm in software. My young software developers are forever telling me it would be faster to rewrite code from scratch than just fix it. I've learnt (and can prove) that is complete cr@p! (They are actually too lazy to try and get their head around someone else's design.)

Just sayin' i can see the parallels here.

[sideshow]

yes its very hard to tell those greeks anything, especially to get them pay their taxes
hehehe
hey Ash I got a nice l98 loom here to suit an 8 stack tunnel ram manifold
have u got close to starting your engine

I prefer to rip out other peoples mistakes and start fresh

[LoBelly]

NYTimes article on Harley Davidson, productivity and labour

worth a look when considering (if that's what you call it) the role of unions

LoBelly