Ford Ignition Probs

[Rossba]

Greg,
This is the MSD style.
I run a Holley version but I think Holley don't make them anymore.

Blaster HVC, Works w/ MSD 6 Series Units - 8252

I ran it with a standard Ford electronic dizzy for 7 years.
This is my Dizzy I have been running for the last 3 years

Ford 289/302 Ready-To-Run Distributor
Part No. 8352

You can just see mine on the right hand head under the heater hoses.

[byroncobra]

Thanks for that mate

I spent the morning yesterday bench testing parts, unplugging and checking connectors, compression, timing, earths and anything else that I could think of.

The engine would cough now and then but not start. So I left it for a couple of hours (to regain my patience) then turned the key and it started. I left to idle then ran it a bit harder for 15 minutes, took it off the trailer and went for a short blat down the road. It didn't stop at least but it's not real happy, missing under acceleration.

So, I'm contemplating my next move........maybe ditch the Mmy Sspark Ddisappeared stuff, but as Ash has noted the Mallory still gave him grief or spend real money and talk to a tuner about Autronic or similar.

I've been quietly thinking about a stroker, not that it's related to my current issues but the bottom end is untouched on a 20+ year old engine with unknown km and now Chris L has got me all excited on his 331cu post.

You gotta ask yourself tho are you throwing good money after bad. I guess the whole topend incl the Massflo setup is new so with a nice new block and rotating assembly you end up with a new engine

All i need is a decent engine builder that can fit me in. Any recommendations that isn't 100 miles away? Chunk.........

[spookypt]

Greg, I use PLR at Brendale.

spookypt

[Z-linkCobra]

Double check your firing order if you haven't already, just to be certain. I ran into a problem a few years back with plug wires. I was running a Mallory electronic distributor and coil. I bought some nice plug wire holders and a new set of blue max plug wires. Installed the looms and made up the wires. Car would not run...if I could get it to start it ran like crap. Swapped and put the old wires back on...ran fine. Just a problem I experienced.

Almost sounds like a bad ground possibly as well. Seen that do really funny things in the past.

Gene

[byroncobra]

Thanks, I think the wires are Ok, I did check the firing order yesterday.

I'll go and check grounds again....

[Rossba]

Another thing I just thought of.
Make sure you have a earth lead on each head!
A mate bought a XB coupe with a big block in it from a guy that had detailed and hidden all the wiring from the engine bay. Guess he thought it looked better without them.
He had all sorts of trouble until I picked up that they were missing.
Ran much better after fitting new earth leads.

I assume you are in Byron Bay?
I had my 331 built by a mate in Geelong.
He has all the machines in his shed to machine all the machining and only needs to out source the balancing.
I am really wrapped with mine making 430ft/p @4300 rpm.

[TUF-427]

Got told once the Autronic Ecu could basically run the Space shuttle

Unfortunatly they fitted a Wolf3D to the Challenger.......

Test parts on the way Greg.......

[spookypt]

Originally Posted by TUF-427

Got told once the Autronic Ecu could basically run the Space shuttle

Unfortunatly they fitted a Wolf3D to the Challenger.......

Test parts on the way Greg.......

Gold!

[sideshow]

a commodore 64 could run Apollo 13
but they still could not get a wolf 3d to run a fking engine
I have wired up 1 wolf ecu in 20 years and that was last year which was the new
v550 which is very very good
the previous wolf3d was utter crap
the problem with cheap ecus is the fitting of them is very cheap aswell so half the problems used to be the pisspoor ecu and the pisspoor fitting of them and tuning

I used to work for a shop 20 years ago that was the main autronic agent in NSW
so I prefer them and maybe for something abit cheaper u can get a haltech

the thing that pissees me off with a lot fo this stuff is they don't ask the normal every day public problems they arose when fitting the unit so then they can improve it
I have my own diary of notes to help me with a lot of this stuff and if the company making this stuff had put abit better description on instructions and stuff they would
half the amount of phone calls they get
they just want to sell the product so if they had to fit it daily then they would fix the problems

10 years ago I wired a std ecu to a 1994 302 mustang and it never ran right
so shop got another guy to fit a haltech and it never ran right

8 years ago I wired a haltech e11 to an ef 302 and it never ran right either
so there is some issues with either old haltechs or the fords

but for best results get a good ecu and get a cam sensor as well as crank sensor fitted
then run 8 ls1 coils
no need for other ignitors and stuff and run direct fire ignition

u will never ever need a cheap msd or Mallory dizzy again
these are made in the sticks of china

[albanycobra]

That's BS about Wolf being crap.......

I have had many versions of the Wolf over the years and although sometimes challenging to get going they run the ford v8 fine. the only problem i had was with a **** ford dissy with holden VT guts from some mob over east.

I just installed a Microtech LT16 to a Ford 5.0l with a 6a and Mallory daul sync dissy and it fired up and idled fine straight off the bat. The motor is also fitted a 8 stack. Dont discount Wolf or Microtech when looking for a ECU.

[sideshow]

the old wolfs are not the best for someone who has never used or fitted one before
and as u said sometimes challenging which this is why i would never use an old wolf,
i wired the wolf v550 onto a 1uz race motor and we got it going after awhile so the news one are fine

microtech is piss easy to fit because it comes premade to suit your engine
and the makers of microtech were very very smart as they made a very basic, easy to wire, pre configured ecu which nearly most back yarders can fit, if the old wolfs are that easy ill eat my shorts

if I have fitted 20 wolfs over the past i would know a lot more about them
but for a first timer i would not recommend the old wolfs which were made 15 years ago

the new wolfs are very very good as they can do automatic transmissions

u need to look the ecu as a whole not just as an ecu
fitting is it hard or easy for person tio fit and tune
price how much can u afford
help support which if u don't need who cares but if u get stuck this is the most important tool u can have

wolf has limited help support unless u pay a fee
if someone wants to learn and do it on the cheap go buy yourself a megasquirt
u then need to build it
u then need to learn how to program it
then u need to fix all the tiny problems that will arise

just comes down to how smart u are and how long u want to take to solve the niggly problems and if u pay 300 bucks for an ecu don't go windging when u get stuck with problems

[byroncobra]

Ok.....phew enough of the ECU pro and cons thankyou, you're doing my head in. I reccon I just need to get the ignition issue sorted and work out why the Mass-Flo/ECU combo is causing the odd missfire & running rich for starters.

I frigged around testing and jiggling every bloody wire and sensor yesterday.....I don't really know what i did but at least it's running. No test dizzy arrived yet Pete.

The good news is that I got to the Brunswick Woodchop with the Qld Club this morning without walking home, so that's something.

I read on the US forums that quite a few guys have had issues with the Massflo setup and there's a few fixes including running a 4 wire oxy sensor with separate ground wire. I've emailed Massflo for a few pointers, so we'll see what they have to say.

[sideshow]

the way to fix the massflo system is throw it out
biggest problem with it is not many use it in Australia
so where do u take it for testing or diagnosing

not like an ls1 , every corner shop has a dyno and tuning software

this is why I don't fk around with many things where I cant ring the manufacturer and ask for help that's y in 20 years I mainly deal with std ecus and if I do the aftermarket ones I prefer to use haltech or autronic or microtech or motec or vipec, the rest just costs too much of my time and its bloody impossible to give a customer a 4000 dollar bill
so I will just be abit rude on the phone and say I don't touch them find someone else
does the massflow have any way to diagnose things like a normal efi 302
where u bridge two wires and count the flashes

how hard is it to go std maf and std ecu

[sideshow]

the older holden v6s used to have earth problems on the o2 sensors
we just used to join each earth from the o2 sensors together then
run wire and earth it on block
unless u can read live data it is a very very tedious job

[albanycobra]

did you end up getting your LS1 ecu's to run on a ford V8?
what is the cost of this conversion?

[sideshow]

I got an ls1 ecu to work on a eb v8 about 3 years ago
to do a loom can range from 1000 to 1800
depending what gets supplied
if u have a ford v8 loom and accessories
then it's abit cheaper

the one I did was a trial for a friend to say
we could do it

[albanycobra]

what hardware did you use?

I would assume that you use GM stock coolant and air temp sensors including coils......just change the firing order a bit to suit Ford then all you need is to ingrate a cam/crank sensor that the ecu can read and fits Ford v8. Maybe that ford dissy with Commodore internals work??

would be good to use OE parts for reliability but getting the crank sensor would be a weak link.

[sideshow]

we don't bother running 8 ls1 coils as it would be huge job setting up crank cam sensors properly and no one would pays us that much to do it
so we run a dizzy with single coil and spark plug leads
only sensor u can use of ford is tps then u use std injectors
rest is top secret hehehe

[byroncobra]

There's some interesting stuff here from Pro M on coil on plug ignition

Coil On Plug

and their engine management system @ $2k seems good value.
The 40 minute video explains it well, even a dummy like me can follow the tuning section

Installing the Pro-M EFI Fox Body Mustang Harness

Pro-M EFI Engine Management System for 1991 - 1993 Fox Body Mustang - Pro-M EFI COMPUTER KITS - Pro-M EFI Engine Management Systems

[albanycobra]

you dont want a system that runs an airflow meter. Get one that will allow you to do a SD tune. airflow meters are ugly. then you can get a nice 4 barrel throttle body and a cobra air intake.