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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2019, 05:13 AM
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Default SBF cam swap questions

So guys another query, this regarding a proposed cam swap on my Windsor.

Have been planning to do a cam swap for a while using a new unused E303 cam I've had in storage. The standard ECU can't even handle this mild cam change, so a Motec install needs to happen in parallel.

However on the cam change, first question is whether this can be successfully managed with the motor still in the engine bay? Anyone successfully managed an in-situ swap?

So tearing the top of the engine apart to pull out the cam followers prior to cam removal, do I need to consider replacing the followers or should these be ok to reuse? Not sure about the pushrods either, suggestions?

The car is running edelbrock performer heads and am led to believe the current spring ratings are fine with this mild E303 cam, as lift changes are not overly aggressive.

So hopefully without needing to do an engine pull, can anyone identify the range of engine gaskets I'm also likely to need to replace during the rebuild?

It's been several lifetimes since I've seriously pulled car innards apart but with the right advice and parts I shouldn't get too far astray.

Would appreciate more brains trust advice again.

Cheers

Steve
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2019, 06:03 AM
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The E series cams have the same base circle as a stock cam. Lifters (followers) and push rods can be re-used.

To swap the roller followers, you need to remove the heads. BUT, for a cam change, you can pull them up and hold them with a binder clip.

You'll need to remove valve covers, intake manifold, water pump, and front cover.

Be sure to drain the block well, or you'll get water in the oil pan.
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:32 AM
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Thanks Bob

When I was on the tools, there were only flat bottomed followers and I have not had a need to play with rollers since. But never to late to explore!

Anyway good to know that neither the followers nor the pushrods need to be replaced in this case, simplifies things.

Thanks for the reminder on coolant too, will do a good drain prior.

The unknown is whether I can get the cam out with the engine in-situ.

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Old 08-12-2019, 10:53 PM
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Steve.
Its always best practice to fit new lifter when fitting a new cam. Depending the mileage on the current lifters. The rollers will have small grooves in them from wear. This will slightly accelerate the wear on the cam until both surfaces match.
As far a cam removal goes. Measure the lenght of the new cam. Measure the cam lenght from water pump face forward. that is the room you need to get the cam out. All cars are made slightly different. So that will give you a rough guide. Remember the cam needs to come out square to the bearing and cannot come upwards until it clears the last bearing.
Check the price of a felpro top end gasket kit from engine masters. Its normally cheaper than buying the gaskets separtely.
Hope that helps
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:10 AM
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Thanks Bender

Now this advice I understand.

As to wear, in the medium term I am going to stroke this motor down the track so much of the bits will go anyway. So not so worried if I just reuse parts if not already highly worn.

A couple of u-tube vids last night helped better understand the dismantling process needed too.

Cheers

the E cam
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:29 PM
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Slowy
If you determine that you don’t have the room to remove camshaft then you can just remove the radiator.
You will then need to get a length of 1” steel tube about a metre long and weld another 2” long tube on to the end perpendicular to the original tube,create a slot in the short tube so that you can bolt it on to your camshaft,as an extension,you will then be able to remove the cam through the front of the body.
I have done it myself in the past by this method.
Dimensions are only approximate,it’s what ever works for your situation.
There’s a gasket kit available for this procedure so that you don’t need to remove the sump,just remember to cover the sump opening once everything is removed so as to not drop anything into sump.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:29 AM
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Thanks guys

It was a given about removing the radiator, just at the time I asked the question I wasn't so sure how high or low in the block the cam sat.

Over the weekend and can have a play in the engine bay and see if my front upper and/or lower cross members are going to cause grief.

Am prepared to slightly raise or lower the front of the engine to get around the frame elements.

Otherwise I now suspect I can do the cam with the engine in place.

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Last edited by stephen low; 08-14-2019 at 01:40 AM.. Reason: typo correction
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:18 AM
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When I first built my ffr I had a 342 stroker, I changed cams a few times.
I had 8 long carriage bolts with magnets epoxied to the end of the bolts and wing nuts to hold the lifters up and just pulled cam out, with out even removing the intake. they worked great but every thing was new at the time.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:33 PM
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As a rule always use new lifters with a new cam, you can get away with it on roller lifters, but it’s not ideal. As to the cam change itself, before taking half the car apart, I’d pull the motor. Pulling the engine is not that big a job on a Cobra.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:27 AM
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Default Thinking cam removal in the engine bay is do-able

Sorry RUF pulling a cobra motor is a PITA and more work than required.

I could remove an alfa motor and gearbox from an old alfa I had in 40 minutes, but not that time for the cobra!

A few pics to convince myself with a bit of management, the swap can be done not only in-situ but apparently with the radiator still in place.

The length of the E cam - 500mm.



The space in front of the motor, showing 500mm, with thermo fan just to the extreme left of shot and the upper cross frame (chromed) in shot at about the 200mm spot.





The height and location of the upper chassis cross frame in front of the engine.

Reviewing footage the camshaft appears almost directly behind the centre of the water pump pulley. The top of that bit of timber is just at the lower side of the cross bar.





So with the necessary engine and other peripheral parts stripped, the engine supported by an engine crane and with the engine mounts removed so I can lower the engine a tad, I think I can manage that slight drop that will allow the camshaft to be removed under the cross rail.

Looked at other factors in the engine bay that might prevent the engine drop but none are obvious.

In the words of The Castle - "Am I dreaming"???

Optimistic me!

So tell me I'm wrong and why, so I can really have a good look.

Cheers

Steve
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:56 AM
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I think you're on it.

Doing the swap in situ is so much easier than pulling the engine.
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:37 AM
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Default roller rockers

Hi,
I have run a E cam and B cam. they only give you 2 tenths in the 1/4 mile. A better solution is a set of 1.7 roller rockers, they give you the same 2 tenths for a lot less work. Change the cam when you upgrade the heads etc.
Perry
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:31 PM
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Perry

If I still have 1.6 rockers I'll do both mate - lol

Don't actually know what my engine man did when he originally swapped out the GTP heads for the Edelbrock Perfomers currently installed.

How do I recognise which ratio rockers I have?

Is it a matter of measuring lengths?

Cheers
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Last edited by stephen low; 08-15-2019 at 06:32 PM.. Reason: Typo correction
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:39 AM
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Default rockers

hi,
the stock rockers are 1.6 ratio, the aftermarket 1.72 rockers are labelled. I run trick flow 1.72 roller rockers.
P
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:46 AM
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To me, 2/10ths in the quarter is HUGE!

I'd certainly go the 1.7 rockers after getting several opinions. I'd considered going with different rockers, 'way back, on my 496 RAT but now, don't remember why I didn't.
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Old 08-23-2019, 03:32 AM
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Can I suggest that you do the Motec upgrade first and make sure that is working and then do the cam swap. That would remove variables and give you a better chance of learning the system prior to having to plug in some parameters for the new cam.

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Old 08-23-2019, 04:07 AM
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I wouldn't even think about changing rocker ratios without verifying piston to valve clearance.

I choose a camshaft that will give the lift as required, with a lower ratio rocker like 1.6, rather than run a low lift cam with 1.7s, 1.72s or 1.8s.

If you find benefit with high ratio rockers, you have the wrong camshaft.

Gary
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:20 PM
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Thanks for the feedback guys.

Had the cam so I decided I might as well installing it as an interim until the 347 stroker or similiar comes along. Same too for the motec as it is all being dyno'd afterwards and I wasn't spending the coin twice on the dyno.

However it seems my new race yacht build needs to come first as I don't have the cash to cover both toy amendments for now - ah well!
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