Changing t5 cable clutch to external slave hydrolic

[tcrist]

I know this has probably been covered before but I cant find it. I am changing from a cable clutch to and external slave hydrolic clutch. Do I need to modify my clutch pedel pivot location to get the correct throw for the slave cylinder? I still do not like the way the cable clutch puts constant pressure on the throwout bearing so that is why I am going to the hydrolic.

Terry

[Double Venom]

Terry,
My thoughts on that change over vary on a lot of different details. IF you have the cable installed and or adjusted correctly there should be NO pressure on the clutch-pressure plate at all. If you decide to go hydraulic anyway, the first thing you need to decide is to use a push or pull hydraulic sleeve. Figure out which one is the easiest for you to install, that you have room for it, the resevoir and the new line. For me a "push" type valve is about the easiest to install at the bell housing and no, you shouldn't have to change pivot point. Not much help but I hope it works out for you. Many companys to choose from but I like Tilton.
DV

[tcrist]

DV, Thanks for the input. I know that you know a lot about CR'S. My issue is with the cable adjusted with no pressure on the throwout bearing there is not enough throw on the clutch pedal to engauge the clutch. My car is a CR LTD built demo car and the clutch cable is the origional one. Why it doesn't work correctly (or at least the way that I think it should), I don't know. capeddie says his has worked this way and he has never had a throwout bearing issue. You will have a PM shortly.

Thanks, Terry

[capteddie]

Originally Posted by tcrist

capeddie says his has worked this way and he has never had a throwout bearing issue. You will have a PM shortly.

Hold on there big fella...

1st. my car is not even done yet and 2nd, I'm rolling with an automatic.

Ed (the real capteddie...don't be fooled by substitutions)

[Double Venom]

Ed,
May I assume you two have the same kind of Cobra and Clutch set up? If so can you describe the cable for me? Does it have a large white heavy plastic plug on the end that goes into the firewall and is the other end a threaded rod? If so do you have a "barrell" of sorts that goes through the firewall and does it stick out from the firewall about 5"s with the cable going through to the clutch pedal. Geesh, I just trealized you said you are using an automatic! Oh well, trcist, these are the first questions I am going to ask you too.
DV

[tcrist]

Sorry capteddie. I must of had a brain fart. It was CobraEd.

Terry

[Smike740]

Terry,

I converted my CRII clutch to hydraulic last winter for many of the same reasons you listed. In order to have enough pedal travel with some freeplay the pedal sat very high in relation to the brake pedal. It felt like driving a truck. I am very happy with the hydraulic setup. I probably went overboard on re-engineering the setup. I made a new brake and clutch pedal so I could dial in the pedal feel and position I wanted. I ended up with a pedal ratio around 6:1 and I am using a wilwood master and CNC push type slave. I reworked the bellhousing pivot point to swith the throw out fork to a push type. You should be able to use you pull type fork arrangement, you just need to use a pull type slave.

Whether you will need to change the pedal is up to the pedal feeling you want. Since the clutch pedal is set up to pull the cable you will at least have to modify the pedal to push on the clutch master cylinder. The pedal force and stroke is determined by the pedal ratio, Master cylinder piston diameter, slave cylinder piston diameter and the throw out fork travel.

The relationship between these are pretty straight forward calculations. If you need any help or want some pictures of my set up let me know.

Thanks,

Mike

[capteddie]

Originally Posted by tcrist

Sorry capteddie. I must of had a brain fart. It was CobraEd.

Terry

No worries...

Thought maybe I posted something after a heavy night at the pub

Ed

[tcrist]

Smike740, I would like to see pictures of your setup. You can e-mail me at tcrist@comcast.net . I talked to DV tonight and he told me about some changes to the cable setup that I can try. The hydraulic setup that I have been looking at is designed for the T5 trans. The slave bolts up to two trans tabs and pushes from the rear.

Terry

[HI Cobra]

I have a CR '99 vintage with the cable clutch and the T-5 tranny. Just short
of 19k miles and have had no problems with my set up whatsoever. I have
played with the adjustment now and then to feel it out but for the most part
I just leave it alone. There is no tension on the throw out when it is engaged.

[tcrist]

Flip,
Mine is an early 90's CR LTD.
How far does your throwout arm ride up in the adjuster. I have to have mine up within about 1/2" of the threaded end next to the cable to get it to engage. This means that after I adjust it up enough to take the play out of the pedal (the throwout bearing is touching the pressure plate) the clutch does not work. The pedal hits the firewall. I have to adjust it approx. 2" or more on the adjuster to get the clutch to work. I talked to ED/DV tonight and he told me that the cable sheath is too short. Ed said that I need to extend the cable housing where it is coming out of the firewall to take up the slack in the cable. If you look at my photos, on page 2 there is a picture of the clutch housing where it comes out of the firewall. That housing is approx 4 1/2 to 5" long. Ed said that it needs to be 6" long for the clutch to work correctly. What is the length of the housing coming out of your firewall? How far is your adjuster cranked up? Pictures would be appreciated if you have any. I have already ordered my hydrolic setup but i can cancel it if I can get this to work correctly. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance, Terry

[HI Cobra]

Aloha Terry,

I just went out and took a look at mine. A friend did the initial build but that
was eight years ago. He followed the book for the most part, Don Scott
provided the engine/trans (351w& T-5z) so I think he went by the book on
that part. I keep referring to the manual because I think the same basic
edition was used for years. The housing at the firewall looks just like yours,
I don't think it is any longer than 4". The cable comes way forward in an arc
and is above the A frame and heads back under to the throw out arm. Looking
from above it looks like the threaded portion of the rod is about centered in
the throw out arm as far as adjustment goes. I have to push the pedal about
2" before disengagement starts and when I let the clutch out it starts to
engage about 2" off the floor. It feels like it is just about centered as far as
engagement - disengagement from the floor to end of pedal. Works for me.
Hope this gives a little insight. Sorry I don't have pictures but mine looks
like yours as far as I can tell. I just have NAPA clutch disc in there, nothing
exotic. Hopes this helps?

[tcrist]

Flip,

When your cable sheath goes thru the tab in the bellhousing is it just a plastic piece on the end or is there a spacer between it and the bellhousing for cable shieth adjustment. From what I am understanding from DV is that the sheath is actually too short. I am wondering if maybe I am missing a part or something. After reading my initial post about the "King Cobra Clutch" the part that bolts to my firewall is only 4 1/4" long. DV says that it ahould be 6". That means the sheath is about 1 3/4" short. It sounds to me that maybe I am missing a part of the cable/sheath. Hope that I can get this figured out so I dont have to spend that kind of money on the hydrolic unit. It isn't cheap.

Terry

[HI Cobra]

Terry,
I just checked again and the piece that is attached to the bell housing is
identical to yours. Looks like the threaded rod that goes through the
take out arm is the same too - it has two 1/2" nuts for adjustment and yours
in the picture looks like it has about the same adjustment in the threads as
mine. My cable extends forward past the front header pipe before it turns
back to the firewall. The pedal linkage in your picture also looks like mine.
I can only guess that your pressure/plate clutch may be different but it
would seem the throughout shouldn't be that different what ever is used.
My plastic fitting in the bell housing isn't as clean as yours but when I got
underneath with a mirror it is the same (only dirty). Not sure what is
causing your problems. I was a little nervous at first with the cable set up
thinking I would be adjusting it frequently but that hasn't been the case.
I don't track it (hey, this is Hawaii, no more track) but I have been known
to get on it now and then. Having said this it will probably break.

[Double Venom]

Mike, HI Cobra,
Both of you are describing the exact same problem as well as Terry... with the original "short sleeve-tube" it does throw the pedal ratio way off. 6:1 is the SAE ideal ratio and it doesn't happen with the short tube/barrell.

I'm impressed with Mikes hydaulic set up, sounds like he did the "whole donut' on the engineering but not to take anything away if the tube or barrell is made longer then you will obtain the 6:1 ratio with plenty of free play available and with plenty of adjustment for clutch wear. HI cobra, if you have two inches of travel before your clutch disengages then you too need to have a longer tube installed. I know Don is/was using a longer tube once we showed him the positives over the original CR LTD tube. People the short tube works.....but you can add comfort, proper mechanical engineering and thousands of miles to your clutch by using a 5-1/2 to 6" tube, maintaining your 6:1 ratio vs. the CR LTD tube of 4 1/2' +/-. If you got your kit from Don all but his very first ones had (what I call) the correct lenght tube.

Terry, your not missing any parts...a longer tube is going to work! Besides, if you go to hydraulic someday you will need to extend the tube anyway, IF you do not want to go through what Mike did.

My 2-cents, once again- there is always a better mousetrap.
DV
PS: The tube does not change the original cable lenght, it only takes up the slack in the housing itself, forces the throwout arm to a wide open design, thusly pulling the pedal into the 6:1 ratio instead of the pedal being 2"s higher than the brake pedal and gives the cable the proper adjustable lenght.

[tcrist]

Thanks ED, Looks like I am going to be modifing my cable sheath/barrel.

Thanks again, Terry

[HI Cobra]

Looks like I will do likewise - I haven't had any perceived problems but if the
6" barrel is better then I have a new project. Hope Don gets his legal issues
resolved soon so he is back in business so I can get the longer barrel.
I may have been off in my 2" descriptions for pedal activations - basically the
feel is like any of my other vehicles with a standard transmission.

ps - Ed - so I only need to get the longer barrel and can use the same cable with it?
Thanks

[Gas40]

What is meant by a longer barrel, I must be missing something my adjuster bolts right to firewall and my cable is 4 or 5 in to long.Is there a bracket/
barrel that I am missing, a picture would be great. Otherwise if I want to switch to Hydraulics what is the best way to go. Thanks
George

[tcrist]

Gas40,
Look in my photos. On page 2, picture called "clutch cable firewall".
Terry

[CobraEd]

Why would anyone want to go to all the complexity of a hydrolic clutch, when the cable solution works great. Easy and infinate adjustability and no leaking. WHY???


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