Researching any info re: Paul Cunningham, Competition Cobra privateer

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

The parts that are being used in the new construction are not parts that can be confirmed as having come directly from the original 2049, the engine, the transmission and the differential have both casting numbers and date codes that prove otherwise. Are they original to a Cobra, possibly but nothing other than the differential is Cobra specific. Then again the 4HU Salisbury has been used in several European vehicles. The engine and the transmission are generic Ford parts without any kind of markings that would prove they came from Shelby’s shop. The engine itself is a 289, when 2049 crashed at Willow Springs in November of 1963 it had a 260 with a four barrel Autolite carburetor in it. The 260 race engine would have had numbers and stamping that would have indicate that it was a SAI built competition engine. Are there other parts related to the build that are Cobra specific, yes but those are parts that can not be confirmed to be directly related to or having come from 2049 or it’s timeframe.

Please note that, for practical purposes, I did not specify which parts from the original 2049 are being used in the reconstruction. But yes, there are some.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Please note that, for practical purposes, I did not specify which parts from the original 2049 are being used in the reconstruction. But yes, there are some.

If you (SAAC) are the keepers of the keys to the legitimate CSX vault of information, why are you so closed lip about all you know? Could it be that the real truth would weaken your (SAAC) position as the "Font of all things CSX"?

Old period paper of the construction era, an old typewriter (for those of us that actually used one), a similar real invoice for proper appearance and VOILA! you have paper, now just find some old wreck with history and build a new Cobra and use the lifted title and wait for a sucker to buy it and bank millions.

End of story, IMO.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

If you (SAAC) are the keepers of the keys to the legitimate CSX vault of information, why are you so closed lip about all you know? Could it be that the real truth would weaken your (SAAC) position as the "Font of all things CSX"?

Old period paper of the construction era, an old typewriter (for those of us that actually used one), a similar real invoice for proper appearance and VOILA! you have paper, now just find some old wreck with history and build a new Cobra and use the lifted title and wait for a sucker to buy it and bank millions.

End of story, IMO.

No offense, but when you found out what you have on your hands was not a true Cobra frame, but that of an AC Ace, you should have quietly acknowledged this graciously. To then attack those who have kept innuendo or second hand knowledge of second hand knowledge from becoming fact, is in my eyes, just bad form.

Just my two cents

Bill S.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

No offense, but when you found out what you have on your hands was not a true Cobra frame, but that of an AC Ace, you should have quietly acknowledged this graciously. To then attack those who have kept innuendo or second hand knowledge of second hand knowledge from becoming fact, is in my eyes, just bad form.

Just my two cents

Bill S.

I have had a noted Cobra Expert look at the frame pieces and was told that one end is ACE; however, the other end is an early Cobra with worm and sector steering. Again, let me say that our Cobra may have been a very early car, possibly even a 260ci that was used by SAI as a publicity car, I have pics that show the car with the louvered hood, black and silver racing stripe. I have looked at tens of thousands of Cobra photos and have not found but one pic with that combination of physical features.

When Shelby needed to have more cars competing against the factory team cars for promulgation, he may have converted that car that may have been early enough to have both the ACE/Cobra chassis ergo my two pieces with a 289ci engine.

I have a written statement from a racing peer that was at Willow Springs that stated he and Paul were discussing the car going back to SAI on the Monday following the race in which he was killed. Major modifications were instore to update the car to the highest competition form that was available, steering upgrade, intake and carbueration, camshaft, etc. However, it was commonplace at that time to not be able to have all the goodies that the team cars had, even though they had Fomoco part numbers on them. We were technically just a skoosh behind the team cars in racing parts, but we were becoming much more competitive against the team cars and their top rate challengers.

As an example, look at the Riverside 1 hour Race held October 13, 1963, where we raced competitively against the team cars #97, #98, #99, Allan Grant's Coventry Motors Cobra #96, GTO Ferrari #211. There are videos and still videos on file at The Henry Ford Collection, and Photographer Friedman.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

I have had a noted Cobra Expert look at the frame pieces and was told that one end is ACE; however, the other end is an early Cobra with worm and sector steering.

What is the name of your "Cobra Expert"? There are those that know what they are looking at, there are some that do not, even though they advertise themselves as such because they worked for this or that company in the past. Hence the question, since I know you want to make certain you spoke with the right people, and not the wrong ones.


Bill S.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

What is the name of your "Cobra Expert"? There are those that know what they are looking at, there are some that do not, even though they advertise themselves as such because they worked for this or that company in the past. Hence the question, since I know you want to make certain you spoke with the right people, and not the wrong ones.


Bill S.

Well known, well respected, however, I am under an NDA.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Well known, well respected, however, I am under an NDA.

Then your "Shelby Expert" may not be one after all, as every one of those that I personally know, would be happy to publically stand behind their highly valued reputation. A Non Disclosure Agreement for an expert witness of a product you have a vested interest in, makes me want to wash my hands for just typing this out in response.

Bill S.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

If you (SAAC) are the keepers of the keys to the legitimate CSX vault of information, why are you so closed lip about all you know? Could it be that the real truth would weaken your (SAAC) position as the "Font of all things CSX"?

Old period paper of the construction era, an old typewriter (for those of us that actually used one), a similar real invoice for proper appearance and VOILA! you have paper, now just find some old wreck with history and build a new Cobra and use the lifted title and wait for a sucker to buy it and bank millions.

End of story, IMO.

We don't claim to know everything. We simply do our best to present the facts as they line up. It's up to people to determine for themselves how relevant they may be for them. I would point out, Mr. Cowboy, that I do not have a dog in this hunt, whereas you are claiming you do. I therefore have NO interest at all in spinning the truth. Can you say the same?

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

We don't claim to know everything. We simply do our best to present the facts as they line up. It's up to people to determine for themselves how relevant they may be for them. I would point out, Mr. Cowboy, that I do not have a dog in this hunt, whereas you are claiming you do. I therefore have NO interest at all in spinning the truth. Can you say the same?

Yes, I only want the truth about Paul's career and ownership, and not to allow others to usurp the car, and the story.

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

But nothing that can be identified as such with numbers and date codes to prove it, except a trunk lid latch.

I would point out that even a trunk latch is superior to nothing whatsoever.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Please note that, for practical purposes, I did not specify which parts from the original 2049 are being used in the reconstruction. But yes, there are some.

As keeper of the real Cobra keys, why don't you explain exactly what part(s) was used to support that chassis? Perhaps a bullet rear vision mirror!

I , for one , would like to know what was used in the reconstruction.

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

I do know from actual court document photos (which I have) that the parts that were claimed to be from 2049 in fact were not, unless 2049 became a rack and pinion car with a 427 frame. The court awarded title to 2049 based on the % of amount of parts that were presented by the plaintiff as being from 2049 to the court. Anybody knowing anything about Cobras should have been able to see the parts presented were from a Cobra or Cobras other than 2049 and other than a worm and sector Cobra.

CSX2049 was not a rack and pinion and 427 chassis, it was a 289 with rack and pinion steering at the time of the wreck. There is definitely funny business going on with this Wesselink project car based upon the court making it's determination of title based on fraudulent evidence. JMHO.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

CSX2049 was not a rack and pinion and 427 chassis, it was a 289 with rack and pinion steering at the time of the wreck. There is definitely funny business going on with this Wesselink project car based upon the court making it's determination of title based on fraudulent evidence. JMHO.

Are you or someone you are associated with preparing for a lawsuit, or have you filed a lawsuit in regards to your or someone you are associated with claims? If the car was only worth $10,000 in todays market, would you be as headstrong in your belief that your history is 100% correct and you are not relying on a false memory or mistaken memory that was guided by the questions being asked?

Again, just trying to wrap my head around your ultimate, long term goal in this thread.



Bill S.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Are you or someone you are associated with preparing for a lawsuit, or have you filed a lawsuit in regards to your or someone you are associated with claims? If the car was only worth $10,000 in todays market, would you be as headstrong in your belief that your history is 100% correct and you are not relying on a false memory or mistaken memory that was guided by the questions being asked?

Again, just trying to wrap my head around your ultimate, long term goal in this thread.



Bill S.

NO and no.

The value of the car has nothing to do with my efforts to correct the history and Paul's driving career.

I am 78 and do not have the physical nor financial where with all to reconstruct CSX2049. That said I would entertain a project wherein the car could be reconstructed, competed, and eventually sold.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

NO and no.

The value of the car has nothing to do with my efforts to correct the history and Paul's driving career.

I am 78 and do not have the physical nor financial where with all to reconstruct CSX2049. That said I would entertain a project wherein the car could be reconstructed, competed, and eventually sold.

I don't see any path to get from where you are to where you want to go.

Maybe if somehow you were to discredit the Hasselrig title, wouldn't that just mean there was no longer a legitimage title in anyone's possession? You don't have a title to CSX 2049? How would you get one? Through a lawsuit? Based on what? I don't get it.

I don't see how the cut up frame you have can be tied to CSX 2049 in any way.

Wouldn't it just be easier at this point to just create a replica of CSX 2049? Maybe someone could partner with you to get AC Brooklands or Kirkham to build one?

Or better yet, how about talking to Shelby American and getting them to build a series of CSX 2049 replicas with CSX 7xxx serial numbers? And maybe you get the first one out of the deal - a real nice one with an aluminum body at a hefy discount from your family blessing on the project. You know Shelby likes to do special editions and charge extra for them.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

As keeper of the real Cobra keys, why don't you explain exactly what part(s) was used to support that chassis? Perhaps a bullet rear vision mirror!

I , for one , would like to know what was used in the reconstruction.

Yes, I can imagine you would enjoy knowing that. But since I am not the owner of the car, it isn't for me to release details about it, especially since it is my understanding there could be further litigation ahead involving this VIN and the right to proper legal ownership thereof.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Yes, I can imagine you would enjoy knowing that. But since I am not the owner of the car, it isn't for me to release details about it, especially since it is my understanding there could be further litigation ahead involving this VIN and the right to proper legal ownership thereof.

It does appear that someone is on a fishing expedition and shopping for answers to help make a case.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

It does appear that someone is on a fishing expedition and shopping for answers to help make a case.

Not a fishing expedition. Since the prime purpose of SAAC is to protecting the integrity of the history and ownership of classic cobras, it seems to me that the information known to be fact by SAAC mgmt should be made available to all with an interest in the truth.

N'est pas?