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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2021, 08:40 PM
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With respect to the possibility of "manufactured data" I would agree with your thoughts but for the fact that a lot of the data was retrieved from one historical collection and there was no possibility of dummied-up paperwork on most of the 2049 information. There are also period photos of the wrecked car that are not only dated (March '67) but have the current claimed owner of the car in them.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2021, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY View Post
Ned,

The documentation you refer to can be easily 'manufactured' as all you need is some period correct invoice paper, period correct typewriter, and voila! you have what some would accept as supportive paperwork.
Not to throw stones at your glass house here, but the paperwork in question that Ned is talking about most likely came from SAI (Shelby American Inc) storage area when they were cleaning it out and getting ready to throw it away. SAAC (Shelby American Automobile Club) jumped in and grabbed what they could, then spent years sorting and cataloging every little bit of data (some known to the public, quite a bit not). Ned being one of those tasked with this seemingly endless, and ever changing adventure.

With that said, perhaps you'd care to share some additional details of what you have, as asked for earlier in this thread. Even a current, well lit, detailed picture(s) of your "family heirloom" as it sits today might sway some to your way of thinking.

Bill S.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2021, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmustang View Post
Not to throw stones at your glass house here, but the paperwork in question that Ned is talking about most likely came from SAI (Shelby American Inc) storage area when they were cleaning it out and getting ready to throw it away. SAAC (Shelby American Automobile Club) jumped in and grabbed what they could, then spent years sorting and cataloging every little bit of data (some known to the public, quite a bit not). Ned being one of those tasked with this seemingly endless, and ever changing adventure.

With that said, perhaps you'd care to share some additional details of what you have, as asked for earlier in this thread. Even a current, well lit, detailed picture(s) of your "family heirloom" as it sits today might sway some to your way of thinking.

Bill S.
This is a very interesting story and I really appreciate how diplomatic you guys are, please continue in this fashion of using facts and not heresy to come to a conclusion.
Coming from the outside and looking in I have to agree old pictures and documentation would be very hard to disprove.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2021, 05:22 PM
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To Mike, the original poster: I sure would welcome any input you might have on false claims and allegations about the "Cunningham Cobra." At this point, the more data we can assemble, the easier it is to sort fact from fiction. And photos and documents are especially helpful. Hope you haven't disappeared...
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2021, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel View Post
To Mike, the original poster: I sure would welcome any input you might have on false claims and allegations about the "Cunningham Cobra." At this point, the more data we can assemble, the easier it is to sort fact from fiction. And photos and documents are especially helpful. Hope you haven't disappeared...
Ned,

He is still here:
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2021, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Nedsel View Post
To Mike, the original poster: I sure would welcome any input you might have on false claims and allegations about the "Cunningham Cobra." At this point, the more data we can assemble, the easier it is to sort fact from fiction. And photos and documents are especially helpful. Hope you haven't disappeared...
I have made contact several times with the "so-called" keepers of the documentation regarding my step-fathers privateer Cobra and never received even a response confirming the receipt of my inquiry. I have purchased the books being sold by them and guess what they responded immediately if I want to buy something. There are many people that have pictures, data, stories, etc. but I can count on one hand those that have provided me with any history, etc. regarding Paul Cunningham. I get emails and calls from people wanting all my info. pictures, etc. from Europe and USA, they do not necessarily want to share, they principally are interested in fleshing out their story to enrich their project. My only goal/task is to honor Paul and his privateer Cobra history. Genuinely interested people are few and far between, there are many fakers and users in this Cobra world. Bless those who want to help, may they provide my quest with much info, pictures, programs, videos, etc. Direct contact with me at michael@heinekegroup.com.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2021, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY View Post
I have made contact several times with the "so-called" keepers of the documentation regarding my step-fathers privateer Cobra and never received even a response confirming the receipt of my inquiry. I have purchased the books being sold by them and guess what they responded immediately if I want to buy something. There are many people that have pictures, data, stories, etc. but I can count on one hand those that have provided me with any history, etc. regarding Paul Cunningham. I get emails and calls from people wanting all my info. pictures, etc. from Europe and USA, they do not necessarily want to share, they principally are interested in fleshing out their story to enrich their project. My only goal/task is to honor Paul and his privateer Cobra history. Genuinely interested people are few and far between, there are many fakers and users in this Cobra world. Bless those who want to help, may they provide my quest with much info, pictures, programs, videos, etc. Direct contact with me at michael@heinekegroup.com.
Perhaps you went looking or reaching out to the wrong email and/or folks. Try this one.

cobraregistrar@saac.com
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2021, 08:02 AM
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A very interesting thread here, which I started reading re: Cobra fatality in CA. recently. I enjoyed looking up info on Paul Cunningham, and I'm at a loss as to the lack of photos of his Cobra before his fatal crash. Also, the serial number/data plate issues, as I have an old Kurtis Kraft midget from the late 40's that does not have any identifiable serial numbers on the chassis and a missing data plate. Some of these midgets were made without numbers stamped, so it's not as big a deal as this Cobra story, but I would defer to SAAC for correct Cobra info. However, never rule out the possibility of counterfeit Cobras out there in the world. A great post by Mike, and look fwd to more information as it is uncovered.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2021, 10:05 AM
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The Cobra in question CSX2049 never had a VIN plate attached to it, only a frame VIN stamping and several other stampings on various parts. CSX2049 started life as a street Cobra that was then converted to a race Cobra.
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Old 10-05-2021, 10:24 AM
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Seems that sometimes its better to own what we own (replicas, tributes, continuations, scratch built, kits) as there are less questions about what it is.

There seems to be more CSX2000 and CSX3000 cars now than were manufactured in the 60's particular to race cars. Its great that they have turned into the ultimate collectable however that means there are things to be careful of.

Once a car has a bad story, it always will as values are so high stories have a tendancy to stick or at least be written with multiple endings.

Thanks to all of those that are looking at the details and trying to keep track of them and also the correct story.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2021, 08:01 PM
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Default Cunningham Cobra

I have spent all day trying to post photos and have been denied access with the "Php has encountered an Access Violation at 7D611952" message.

How does one upload photos to the gallery? attach directly to post?

Help!
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2021, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY View Post
I have spent all day trying to post photos and have been denied access with the "Php has encountered an Access Violation at 7D611952" message.

How does one upload photos to the gallery? attach directly to post?

Help!
Can you load them to a photo hosting site and then post a link?

Larry
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2021, 02:53 PM
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Default Cunningham Cobra

I'll try again, I would like to create a gallery in which I can upload photos, as raced, crash, parts, etc. Sorry for the upside down issue, original photos were right side up, I don't understand why it happened.

The Cunningham Cobra was very early in production, I've only found one car that looks like it out of tens of thousands of photos on Cobras.

It was an early Cobra, possibly one of the 260ci variety, a Mark I. The single photo I found is a publicity Cobra and also was used in a publicity photo regarding "My Little Cobra - Carroll Conners".

It was possibly in the first group of Mark I's that Shelby received from AC, when you look at the frame pictures, it would appear to be Cobra on one end and a ACE AC on the other, I hope someone out there is familiar with both marques.

Let the discussion begin....!
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2021, 08:48 AM
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More pics?
Any with your father?
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Old 10-13-2021, 12:20 PM
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Are those posted photos the remains of your dad's car?
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Old 10-13-2021, 02:38 PM
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The front looks like Ace with that steering box mount in front. I’m not familiar enough with early Cobras to know I’d they had the same mount for the steering though. Maybe someone else can advise.

Larry
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Old 10-13-2021, 04:37 PM
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Thus far, I'm not sure what I am seeing. The remains there do not appear to be those of an early worm-and-sector Cobra. And the area where a VIN may have been is no longer evident, which means it is unlikely they can be connected to a particular car.

I would add that thus far, I have received just one request for data on this car, and responded to it.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2021, 05:31 PM
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Michael, you say Paul Cunningham owned his Cobra. You also say it was an early car, that was red with a silver stripe, and was raced as #37. We are aware of not just the appearance of the car, but its VIN as well. We know its appearance because we have numerous photos of it after the wreck. And we know its VIN because we have copies of the car's registration from '64-'67, in the name of Ann Abiden, when it was sold to the individual who provided us the copies of his loan documents from Abiden to himself. I would very much welcome any paperwork you can offer to counter this evidence regarding the car's history.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2021, 06:59 PM
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Ned,

I see the wrecked car and I see a registration for CSX2049. How do you know that registration for CSX2049 belongs to the wrecked car? Is there any photographic evidence of the wrecked car showing a vin stamping? Isn't it possible someone tried to put together the wrong registration and the wrecked car in order to get a title if they did not have the paper work for the wrecked car?

Michael,

Do you know the timeframe that your mother got the frame pieces from a Shelby employee? Was it prior to March 1967? The pictures are dated March 1967 if you trust the date on those pictures. Of course the film could have been developed in 1963 and the prints could be reprints made from the negatives years later in March 1967. It does seem that the car in the pictures matches your description of what the car should look like.
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Old 10-14-2021, 08:46 AM
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[quote=1ntCobra;1498073]Ned,

I see the wrecked car and I see a registration for CSX2049. How do you know that registration for CSX2049 belongs to the wrecked car? Is there any photographic evidence of the wrecked car showing a vin stamping? Isn't it possible someone tried to put together the wrong registration and the wrecked car in order to get a title if they did not have the paper work for the wrecked car?

We know that the wrecked car is CSX 2049 because we have tracked the car from its selling dealership to its first owner, who was Ann Abiden, and we examined the wrecked front end of the car after it had been purloined from the storage facility where its current owner had been keeping it. It showed a VIN of CSX 2049. The current owner is the same one who bought the car as a wreck from Abiden in 1967 (hence the date on the photos above), we have copies of the CA registration(s) showing both his name as well as Abiden's during the time he was paying off the loan, and he actually appears in photo #4 above. There is no question that the car Cunningham was killed in is 2049.
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