Researching any info re: Paul Cunningham, Competition Cobra privateer

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

“ There are various documents in the case file referring to a series of payments "to pay off the Cobra" as well as CA DMV papers iHaselrig's name following his acquisition.”

Please provide the documents that refer to “to pay off the Cobra”, I seem to be missing those documents in my court records.

That would be interesting if John and Ned each have a different subset of the court documents. I suspect that neither John nor Ed went out and bought their copies of the court documents the way that I think Michael is trying to do now.

Is it possible that Hasselrig and Wesselink supplied both John and Ned with whatever they have? If so, I wonder if they intentionally left out some of the pages. I wonder what else John or Ned might be missing then. Maybe if Michael buys a copy of the court documents, he might end up with a more complete set of pages then either John or Ned.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

That would be interesting if John and Ned each have a different subset of the court documents. I suspect that neither John nor Ed went out and bought their copies of the court documents the way that I think Michael is trying to do now.

Is it possible that Hasselrig and Wesselink supplied both John and Ned with whatever they have? If so, I wonder if they intentionally left out some of the pages. I wonder what else John or Ned might be missing then. Maybe if Michael buys a copy of the court documents, he might end up with a more complete set of pages then either John or Ned.

I'm trying, I contacted the actual court personnel where the case was heard and requested on-line a copy of the case, they responded "no problem" and sent me an email with my request embedded in it and they instructed me to click on their link to confirm my request. That was 10 days ago or so and nothing yet, just the sound of crickets.

I have stated before that our family was in possession of the Cobra in July of 1963, where it was before, I don't know, but there was never another person connected to the Cobra after that date except for our family. Something happened at that period of time, I contend that our family bought the Cobra at that point and owned it until we lost contact with it.

Ned is reluctant to consider the Cunningham ownership, even though it is common to just sell with a bill of sale for a race car not to ever be driven upon the public streets, or even to have a registration. The Abidin documents presented so far are also non-conclusive as to the ownership, and even what has been shown here is weird as to the type of documents, and the apparent monkeying around with them, missing watermarks, scraps of torn paper, court docs that have Al Abidin as being killed several months before Paul was killed in the car.

Step back and view the total scene, the principal characters in this merry-go-round ownership is convoluted to say the least, and along the way certain people have done illegal things, presented false misleading documentation, and to top off the sundae, the so-called cherry on top, we have a superior court that appears to be incompetent.

The official SAAC history should be reconsidered and rewritten to expose the mess, no one should be able to claim and use the Cunningham Cobra for their personal gain, SAAC owes all of us this transparency. Even though our family may never be able to assert our ownership no on else should be able to do so either.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

I'm trying, I contacted the actual court personnel where the case was heard and requested on-line a copy of the case, they responded "no problem" and sent me an email with my request embedded in it and they instructed me to click on their link to confirm my request. That was 10 days ago or so and nothing yet, just the sound of crickets.

I have stated before that our family was in possession of the Cobra in July of 1963, where it was before, I don't know, but there was never another person connected to the Cobra after that date except for our family. Something happened at that period of time, I contend that our family bought the Cobra at that point and owned it until we lost contact with it.

Ned is reluctant to consider the Cunningham ownership, even though it is common to just sell with a bill of sale for a race car not to ever be driven upon the public streets, or even to have a registration. The Abidin documents presented so far are also non-conclusive as to the ownership, and even what has been shown here is weird as to the type of documents, and the apparent monkeying around with them, missing watermarks, scraps of torn paper, court docs that have Al Abidin as being killed several months before Paul was killed in the car.

Step back and view the total scene, the principal characters in this merry-go-round ownership is convoluted to say the least, and along the way certain people have done illegal things, presented false misleading documentation, and to top off the sundae, the so-called cherry on top, we have a superior court that appears to be incompetent.

The official SAAC history should be reconsidered and rewritten to expose the mess, no one should be able to claim and use the Cunningham Cobra for their personal gain, SAAC owes all of us this transparency. Even though our family may never be able to assert our ownership no on else should be able to do so either.

So nobody else should be able to assert ownership of the car? Well it seems someone has asserted ownership of the car. Perhaps you don't think it is correct, ethical or logical that they have the title to the car, but according to the legal system in the state of California, they are the "legal" title holders.

And what are Ned and SAAC supposed to do about that? If Ned and SAAC were to contradict the results of the Hasselrig court case without any real evidence to back that up, don't you think that Hasselrig and Wesselink are going to sue Ned and SAAC? I would think so. Ned and SAAC would probably prefer that someone else, like yourself provides some real evidence to back up your claim. If someone goes to court over this, it would most likely have to be you. Unless you find some real evidence or win a court battle against Hasselrig and Wesselink, I don't see Ned or SAAC wanting to risk being sued.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

If someone goes to court over this, it would most likely have to be you. Unless you find some real evidence or win a court battle against Hasselrig and Wesselink, I don't see Ned or SAAC wanting to risk being sued.

I really am having trouble trying to figure what the agenda is here. Cowboy, take the money that you would spend on lawyers and build your replica. You'll get a replica finished decades sooner than you'll even come close to getting this through the courts especially since a major stake holder is in another country. You'll get nowhere and the only ones that will come out ahead are the lawyers (if you can find anyone to take the case).

Let it go.

I'll reiterate why your case is as much air as the car:

Of all the people that show up in the ownership chain and lay claim to parts of it, the only one conspicuously absent is anyone named Cunningham. How are you going to get a lawyer to even consider taking the case? First thing any lawyer is going to do is read this topic (actually, a clerk or paralegal will read it), which conspicuously, lacks any documented linkage to anyone named Cunningham. You haven't even convinced anyone here. Lots of hope for the underdog, but that's all.

I'm sure this was all a conspiracy hatched 60 years ago. Yeah, that pile of junk that wasn't worth probably $50 then is going to be worth millions some day so let's fabricate a history to exclude the real owner.

Build your tribute. You'll be much money and time ahead. It might even be done while you can still enjoy it.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I really am having trouble trying to figure what the agenda is here. Cowboy, take the money that you would spend on lawyers and build your replica. You'll get a replica finished decades sooner than you'll even come close to getting this through the courts especially since a major stake holder is in another country. You'll get nowhere and the only ones that will come out ahead are the lawyers (if you can find anyone to take the case).

Let it go.

I'll reiterate why your case is as much air as the car:

Of all the people that show up in the ownership chain and lay claim to parts of it, the only one conspicuously absent is anyone named Cunningham.

I'm sure this was all a conspiracy hatched 60 years ago. Yeah, that pile of junk that wasn't worth probably $50 then is going to be worth millions some day so let's fabricate a history to exclude the real owner.

Build your tribute. You'll be much money and time ahead. It might even be done while you can still enjoy it.

The answer on my side is simple, I am to old to take on a build, I am retired and living on my retirement income, I don't have the money to bring a lawsuit, I checked with Bruce and the build by him is way more than I have in my savings.

The bottom line is that these people that lay claim to our family cobra are using my dad's history and car to build air-cars to sell for millions, and quite frankly that burns my ass. One of the air-cars has been debunked and in my opinion the other one should meet the same fate.

Just an old fart's opinion.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

One of the air-cars has been debunked and in my opinion the other one should meet the same fate.

Just an old fart's opinion.

So the real motivation comes out. If I can't have it then nobody else can either.

I actually feel sorry for you.

NP Complete will be solved before your name is on 2049.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

So nobody else should be able to assert ownership of the car? Well it seems someone has asserted ownership of the car. Perhaps you don't think it is correct, ethical or logical that they have the title to the car, but according to the legal system in the state of California, they are the "legal" title holders.

And what are Ned and SAAC supposed to do about that? If Ned and SAAC were to contradict the results of the Hasselrig court case without any real evidence to back that up, don't you think that Hasselrig and Wesselink are going to sue Ned and SAAC? I would think so. Ned and SAAC would probably prefer that someone else, like yourself provides some real evidence to back up your claim. If someone goes to court over this, it would most likely have to be you. Unless you find some real evidence or win a court battle against Hasselrig and Wesselink, I don't see Ned or SAAC wanting to risk being sued.

Thinking about it a bit more. Most likely, Michael, Ned and SAAC would all be sued if Ned even put a note in the registry that the Cunningham family believes that Paul purchased the car from Ann but there is no paperwork to back that up.

Hasselrig and Wesselink spent money to win their earlier court case, what makes you think they would not be willing to spend more money to avoid any doubt on their title to the car?

Perhaps Michael is thinking he is in poor health and may pass away before getting sued. I don't know if that will work; maybe Michael's heirs can be sued in that case.

Anyway there is the court in the state of California that says that Hasselrig and Wesselink are the legal title owners.

However, here on clubcobra, we have the court of clubcobra member opinions. Here we can speculate, theorize and try to poke holes in the court documents for our own entertainment purposes. And hopefully we are safe from being sued by Hasselrig and Wesselink.

[1985 CCX]

Cowboy,
Air cars for millions? Hmmmm

The car overseas was sold for what would be good replica/tribute $ today. (No net gain or loss)
The current car in CA, worth good-high replica money as its an air-car/tribute, however not for sale as I know it.

Not seeing your point? Did I miss the series of your family pictures with your claimed family car in the garage at home, driveway and driving you to school, its sounding a bit like Liz Warren acting like an American Indian. Seems like this has been eating you up for years, it would be nice to learn more about your father and his race days versus argue over ownership to what is long gone. My dad drove a 1970 VW bug, red as I remember it, does not mean he owned it. Heck, as a kid one remembers things a little different and often times remembers through ones own lense. Maybe that Beetle was orange???

An alloy bodied top notch replica/tribute may fetch >$200,000 today however its not millions.
There is nothing to be gained by either 2049 car or a title holder at this time, both air-cars or some would say great replicas/tributes.
Without some sort of evidence to change the current story, its reality.
Am I missing something?

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

Well, for one if there is verifiable proof that the car that Wesselink and Hasselrig have is a new build with UNVERIFIABLE components, which it is, than it should be addressed as such and the original deemed destroyed.
The SAAC Registry is supposed to be a way of keeping track of legitimate Cobras, if this is not the case it might has well be considered a volume of short stories based on fiction.

John, it is sad that your anger at Richard Wesselink is preventing you from seeing reality. The Registry is constantly updated, and has stated for a long time that the car you had been working on was a brand new build created by the final entity to claim any AC Cars ownership, which was Alan Lubinsky. The Registry further notes that whatever remained of the original chassis ended up in the Netherlands following its claimed theft from a CA storage facility. It is not "destroyed" as you claim. The Registry does its best to describe the odd convolutions that certain chassis numbers endure. The fact that reality fails to suit your wishes does not diminish its purpose.

[CompClassics]

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[CompClassics]

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[CompClassics]

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[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

“ There are various documents in the case file referring to a series of payments "to pay off the Cobra" as well as CA DMV papers iHaselrig's name following his acquisition.”

Please provide the documents that refer to “to pay off the Cobra”, I seem to be missing those documents in my court records.

OK, here is one taken from the court records that mentions the Cobra: