returning a new vehicle

[gobu]

I recently purchased a new Lincoln Navigator ( exactly 14 days ago) and am wondering if anyone knows the specific "Vehicle Return" laws as they apply in Massachusettes.

I am so unhappy with the craftsmanship and the local Dealers service and how the have treated me, I would like to just drop it off and throw them back the keys.
I understand the Lemon Laws but that is not applicable here.
Does anyone know If I can return it for a refund?

[Whaler]

Hey isn't Turk in auto sales??

if so ask him..........

Tim

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Gobu;

My brother-in-law returned a Ford F-250 V-10 a couple of years ago after owning it for 14 days. Told them he was very disappointed in the performance as well as mileage.. They took it back but charged him for the mileage he put on it and some money for "I do not know what",a total of around a thousand bucks.... He took the loss and bought another truck as he was totally disappointed in the V-10. That's what they did in Louisiana,other states I have no idea,but I would certainly talk to the salesman that sold you the vehicle.... Also,they would be more likely to take it back if you bought another vehicle from them to replace that one.....

David

[Dan Semko]

Check under the Lemon Laws and the specifics required by your state. It can be done but Ford makes you jump through the Zone Rep hoops before it will happen. I did it with our F150 Lariat which Ford bought back and in turn purchased a 2000 Navigator at dealer cost, plus "a buyers incentive" which effectively was a credit of $6800 plus an increase in factory warranty from 3/36 to 6/100. They'll tell you it doesn't exist but it does and it can be done. What problems did you have and how was it addressed by the dealer. If you like private e-mail me at sudans2@infocom.com and subject it as "Navigator".
Hope this helps.

Your right to rescind has expired however as others have suggested, approaching your salesman, the general manager then the owner, if necessary and trading into another available vehicle, might be the answer. If you've taken the vehicle in for repairs and they were not successfully completed, the Lemon Laws might apply. Be sure to have a comprehensive record of when you brought the vehicle in for repairs, the nature of the problem, how the problem was addressed, how long you were without transportation etc.
If the dealer does not provide satisfaction, check for the corporate number in the back section of your owners manual and lodge a complaint at the top. If they have not responded within 3 working days, recall the main office and become a very verbose, unhappy camper. You will get attention.

[gobu]

Thanks for the info guys.

I am more upset with the dealership than with the actual vehicle.
Returning it for something else would not suffice as I refuse to give them my bussiness plus Lincoln does not have any other high end model that I like. I already have a Lariat.

I own a service business myself and I guess I have very strict standards regarding customer service, especially for high end products.

Two Fridays ago I took delivary and as I was leaving I noticed their were scratches allover the left back seat door. When I pointed this out they played it down and then told me to come back in a few days and they would buff it out.

A few days later I noticed decent sized oil spots on my driveway, turns out the truck is leaking what I beleive is stearing fluid. When I called to set up the appointment for the scratch repairs and now the leaking fluid I was told it would be about a week before I could bring it in since I needed a loaner.

During that 10 day period I never got a follow up call from the Sales dept. I also own an X5 and I will tell you that BMW follows up on every visit , no matter how insignifigant.

Then about 5 days after delivery I noticed their were verticle , deep scratches, very thin but about ten inches long, on the metal molding between the the right front and back door windows.
At first I was pissed that someone had screwed with my truck but then noticed the exact type of damage on the left side of the truck in the same exact spot, between the windows.
At this point I have this new black truck with scratches all over it and I get the pleasure of looking at a new stain every morning that the thing sits in my driveway.
Finally, when I got to drop it off for the repairs, the service guy tells me that he doesn't have a loaner to give me!!...and that if I don't have a ride I'll have to come back.
At that point I could have killed someone.
Since I refused to let that thing stain my driveway one more night I had my wife come pick me up.
Just as she arrived, they told me that a loaner that just pulled in. A filthy Winstar that stunk like baby piss.

Also when I showed them the other scratches between the windows ,they said it looked like someone had thrown a rope over the truck to tie something down and it must have happened while I had it because I would have noticed it when I bought it.
I know for a fact that these scratches were produced prior to my purchase, I just can't prove it.

I had my wife pick up the vehilcle today and when I got home I could not believe that the condition of which it was returned.
The side that had the door scratches on it was covered with a rime of dust from when they buffed it. You could easily write your name thru it. They did not repair the window molding scatches. The right side tires were all scuffed as if they side swiped a curb and the inside steering wheel and drivers door were marked up with greasy fingerprints.
I plan on making a visit to the GM (owner) but unless I can throw the keys at him I'm sure my complaints will fall on deaf ears as I have come to realize this is probably a man who does not have much pride in his work.

Does this sound like petty *****ing? Probably, but I beleive if your going to sell something you better be prepared to stand behind it.
Anyways, unless I can walk away from it I will probably keep it and go to another Ford Servce center from now on.

[shnookie]

Get in touch with the zone rep. And do not take any bull**** until they give you his name and number. About 6 months ago, I had a friend who's Aerostar van had its auto trans. go down. 37 months and 28 thousand miles. The dealer told him, Sorry, nothing we can do. $3,800.00 bucks for a new tranny. Low and behold, after a search on the net, there is a class action suit due to a plastic sprague in the transmission. We insisted to see the zone rep. The price then dropped to $500.00 with a 100,000 mile warranty thrown in. Something about a "cutomer courtesy warranty or other B.S. like that.) Scream and yell. And have it serviced at another dealer when your done.

[Dan Semko]

You have cause for recourse but it is important that you maintain your cool. At this point, I'd go directly to the owner and start your conversation with the opening," I'm very upset and realize that this is probably the first time you've become aware of my specific vehicle problems, I'm sorry if I come across as angry and really irritated to you but here's my problem" then proceed. If you unload swearing etc on the owner, you'll place him in the defensive position and your fight will be unhill. Give him a chance to rectify his service department's inadequacies. If you are not satisfied after this encounter, contact the zone rep as well as Ford's main customer office which is listed in the back of your owners manual. If you financed the car via Ford, tell them that you will be stopping payment and that you've cancelled the insurance. Return the car to the dealerships service department and after you're inside, go outside to your other vehicle, return with a large trash bag and start to unload everything from the glove box and storage areas, followed by removing your license plates. By this time someone will notice what's happening and ask you what you're doing. Just smile and tell them you are very unhappy, you've stopped payment and cancelled the insurance and they can have their vehicle back. Smile while you're doing this. They will become VERY attentive. Then LEAVE, don't argue or get nasty, just LEAVE. Believe me, your phone will be ringing when you arrive home. Calmly restate your problems with them, tell them you're tired of getting the run around, you've tried to be nice but now the game is over. They'll become very pleasant and will work to make you happy. Try it, you have nothing to loose and everything to gain. It worked for me.

[Blue66]

I would talk to the owner...do this right away...dont let time go by... you didnt buy a "yugo GT" !!! good luck

[blubyu2]

The only shot you have is is a good will buy back from the dealer if ford leans on them Maybe? Bottom line is they don't have to take it back if it a lemon thats a different story. DON'T DON'T DON'T stop making your payments your lender does not care about your problem just there money. If you do that you will have a repo on your hands and good luck trying to buy something else at that point.
Ive been in the car business for 15 yrs and we have bought cars back but we do not have too. I wish you the best of luck but it sounds like your in a tuff spot.

Greg

[Tongue Pirate]

That's a bummer! It's really sad that you can pay that kind of money on a vehicle just to be unhappy with the crafstmanship. In my humble opinion american cars have been on a quality slide for years. It's really sad. It is the one reason I would not buy a new amarican car. Not enough quality for the money! Again IMHO...

[xlr8or]

I may get slammed for this but there is another option.....

Don't buy a Ford!!!

I'm not endorsing anything else and it is just my opinion that Ford quality sucks eggs.

Just .02 worth


Scott

[G.R.]

The very reason I've never bought another Ford PU--since '76

My very first "new " Pick up--wouldn't start the 2nd day I owned it
After spending nearly a week in the shop I got it back -- 3 days later it's leaking oil and trans fluid--not a lot but spotting the garage floor--back to the shop---it was one thing after another-- wouldn't start(4 alternators later), leaked oil(never fixed this problem)leaked trans fluid(never fixed), no Lemon Laws then, I was stuck with this POS Ford PU--dealer "OH WELL"just bring it back--
Traded it off and bought a Chevy 6 mos later


Ford--" Quality Job One"

[STEVE POTTS]

You can take the vehicle to another Ford dealer and tell them of your problems...they will probably be happy to try and earn your loyalty. Customer service varies from dealership to dealership...some good some bad. It should not be this way but it is. I have several Ford vehicles and I travel 15 miles past my local dealer for sales/service because I found a great dealership that treats customers right.

In my opinion Ford makes the best trucks & SUV's on the market so hang on to your navigator...its a great ride. Go find a new dealer.

[Dan Semko]

Greg is absolutely correct and please let me clarify my above post. Tell them that you've cancelled the insurance and have stopped payment but DO NOT actually do it. They won't know the difference, it's a bluff game and you might just win. The dealership has two goodwill repairs that can be authorized above and beyond the normal warranty repairs. For example, if you went to the dealer complaining that the wipers streak, they can replace the entire assembly without charging you, if they want to help. If they're not concerned about your business, then you're out of luck. The best, consistent advise has been to talk to the owner ASAP, then you can establish a game plan.

[gobu]

thanks again guys

[Turk]

If the scratches were there when you took delivery of the car, they should have been pointed out. The offer to remedy them to your satisfaction should have been gotten in writing.

The service department has no way of knowing if the cosmetic repairs were as a result of your negligence. I have seen more than a few cars and trucks that looked like they have been on a Safari or two within days of the purchase.

Shrubbs, tree branches,and many other landscaping plants will scratch the hell out of a car. Especially a new vehicle which may be larger than the vehicle traded in or driven prior to the new acquisition.

Dealers make some money on the sale, but not enough to buy back a vehicle that may have been damaged by the consumer or may indeed be defective from the factory. That is the manufacturer's call.

Upon the sale of the vehicle, sales taxes, incentives (rebates 0%available to the new purchases) are all exhausted. Sometimes the DMV fees are not recovarable. Neither is the contract to the bank or other lending institutions.

You can't just park a vehicle you just bought, and say you don't want it any more. If you have good cause for this, the manufacturer can be convinced to buy the vehicle back.
Many states do have Lemon laws that are there to protect the consumer, not the dealer or the manufacturer.

There is often an arbitration process availabe to you, that is binding on the dealer/manufacturer but not necessarily on you.

There is a right way of seeking help with this unfortunate purchase. Parking it at dealers lot and telling them you are not going to make payments on it for service related complaints is not one of them.That is why they have warranties.

If you are not lucky, the dealer can elect to charge you storage on the vehicle. Parking YOUR vehicle on the dealer lot does nothing. If you are going to stop making payments on it, you may as well park it on the street or on a shopping center parking lot.
It will make it easier for the repo man to tow it.

It is not all that unusual for a dealer not to have enough loaners on a given day. Average size dealership may work on 50-60 customers cars on a given day. The ones under warranty may be half that amount. I doubt it that they would have 25-30 loaners available to meet every need.
Someone who left their Escort for repairs maybe driving around in a Lincoln Town car.

TURK

[Jamo]

Do NOT leave your car at the lot and even threaten to cancel the insurance or stop making payments. Work with the dealer/owner and area rep. You're a LONG way away from any application of typical Lemon Laws.

You're under a seperate contractual relationship for paying for the vehicle, and the lease or purchase agreement requires sufficient insurance coverage. If you threaten or commit any such conduct, you are providing the dealer and finance company with the doctrine of unclean hands (at the least) or breach (or grounds for anticipatory breach) of the purchase and finance agreement.

Basically, your threatening to take a hammer to your own left nut if they don't do what you want them to. Very likely they will sit back and wait for you to pound away.

[Excaliber]

I was working a Dodge dealership, customer with a new truck was SO pissed but they all did was jerk his chain and screw up the warranty work. He finally went across the street to Ford, traded it in and lost a bundle!! The truck was virtually brand new.

Ford immediatly put the Dodge on their USED CAR lot and proudly displayed it as proof Fords are better. The whole thing was SO embarrasing to the Dodge dealership they WISHED they had done what ever it took to make the guy happy in the first place!

Small town, 6000 people, EVERYONE was like,,,,,"Did you hear about the Dodge truck down at Ford?"

....4 speed tranny never ever had a DROP of oil in it, it was SO wasted I'm not sure it COULD be rebuilt to "like new".

Ernie

[Dan Semko]

You've heard it from the experts that are in the business. Jamo and Turk both have the experience to guide you in the "legal and proper" direction. We approached the owner AFTER talking to the service and zone managers unsuccessfully. We reached a very comfortable resolution by the owners intervention which is why we just purchased another new vehicle from them last month and will highly recommend them to anyone that asks. The Navigator is a great vehicle. It's unfortunate that you're starting off on the wrong foot.