Build thread - Resurrection of an old Contemporary

[767Jockey]

Darn, I'm so frustrated I could just quit. I never will, of course, but there is a part of me that's just had it. I have the electrical wires all run and there isn't much more I can do with them until I get the dash in. I need to go out and buy the indicator lights and switches, no big deal.

What IS a big deal is that after sinking $700.00 plus into machining the brand new FE Sideoiler engine block I bought, we find out that the block is no good. It's got casting flaws in it that were only visible after the boring was done. It was line honed and decked, all seemed to be ok, although the block seems harder metalugically (is that a word?) than it should be because the line hone left chatter marks on the saddles. It measures up perfectly, but looks odd. Anyway, after the line hone it was decked. That went fine too. Last up was the boring. What a mess. There are many big black porous marks in the bore now in virtually every cylinder. We are nowhere near the limit on the bore in this thing - there is at least .120" left - we barely scratched the surface on what this block is supposed to accommodate on a bore. The manufacturer has said he will send out a new block once he gets new blocks in stock and once he receives this one back. The problem is twofold - first, this is going to take LOTS of time. I have to get this block back to him. He says he will pay shipping back. I have to have him get new blocks in and have him get that new block to me. He will pay shipping on that too, but there is no telling how long that will take.

The second problem is, I have a $700+ machining bill on a useless, fatally flawed block. He isn't committing on what he'll do with that, he says he has to talk with his partner. The guy who did the machining deserves to be paid - he did the work, he did nothing wrong. I know I am involved here, and perhaps I am blinded by my involvement, but where I sit now I don't see why I should have to pay the machining bill. Believe me, I will make sure the machinist gets paid, he deserves it. However, I really think that the bill should be paid by the block manufacturer. I paid exactly what he asked for the block, I didn't haggle, I did everything I was asked to do. This is the block I was sent and the machining was properly done. The block had a very tiny nick in one of the cylinders (I was out of town while this was going on and was unaware). The machinist called the block manufacturer and informed them about the nick and asked what the manufacturer wanted to do. The manufacturer made the call and said to machine it. So, here I sit, with a $700+ machining bill and a useless block. What do you guys think, what should I do here? Who should pay the machining bill, me or the manufacturer? Am I out to lunch on this by thinking that the manufacturer should pony up the machining costs?

I realize that the manufacturer is small and $700 may be a large chunk of change to lay out. I even offered an alternative to him. This is a cast Iron block, I like aluminum but have no desperate need for aluminum. I told him that I would split the machining cost with him and he can send me an aluminum block instead. Obviously he would make little to no money on the entire transaction, but he wouldn't have to lay out any cash either. I spend money that I really don't want to spend, he makes little to no money on one block. No one wins, no one loses. I am just trying to be cooperative and offer alternatives for him. All things being equal, I'd be just as happy with another cast iron block and he pays the machinist, I am not dying for an aluminum block. I just want the guy to understand that I really am trying to work with him and offer alternatives. Where he takes all this, I have no idea.

Even after all this is over, the time lost is so damaging and discouraging. I was hoping to drive the car this year, something to look forward to after undergoing surgery and treatment. Now, it doesn't look like this is going to happen. This sucks, it really does. I'm bummed out.

[HI Cobra]

I would think that the guy who sold you the block should pay if he is to
stand up for his product. It should be up to him to, in turn, to go after the
caster, or if he did it he should eat it. Your machinist did his work - he
should be paid - no question there. How is the track record of the block
provider? Guess we will find out. Good luck with it.
Good luck with your surgery too!

[mickmate]

Hey Doug pony up the number for the bar if you have it. I have a few good stories and part numbers for the CCX guys that I will probably do a thread about each. Just an FYI for reference on yours, the rear sway bar is 13 7/8" from the flat frame bottom to the centre of the bar, the bar is 3/4" diameter, it's arms are 7 1/8" long and the whole bar is close to 36" long to arm centres. That and Fatboy's great picture gives these guys enough info to put one together from your nice kit and locate it on the frame.

[767Jockey]

OK,I just measured it all up, here's what I have and why I chose these measurements:
Bar is custom made by Speedway engineering. 3/4" diameter.

Centerline of bar to bottom surface of flat lateral rear crossmember is 12 1/2"
I didn't mount it higher because the drivers side arm has to fit beneath the outer mount for the rollbar. If it sits higher it'll slap the underneath of the rollbar mount when the arm comes up. I don't know if you can see in the pictures, but I had to do some trimming on the underside of the rollbar mount to allow clearance for the driver side arm to swing up without contacting the lower side of the rollbar mount.

The arms are adjustable from 6" to 8" measured from the centerline of the bar to the centerline of the down link.

The bar is 34 1/4" from arm center to arm center. This drops the downlinks right into the center of the lower control arm mounts.

Hope this helps.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Getting back to the engine...It's gonna take a while for you to build another 427. Why not just do up a mild 390 or 428 for the time being...just to DRIVE the car. You can always do the 427 killer engine next year. I run a somewhat mild 428 in my car and I love it. It's reliable, somewhat fast, and pretty good on gas. Sure, I'd love a 427 side oiler with 600 HP, but some things are a compromise. I understand your dilemma, and agree that the machinist must be paid, but paid by the block manufacturer, not you. In the meantime, maybe a nice 390 short block can get you on the road, and that's what it's all about. Good luck and keep the faith.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

Why not just do up a mild 390 or 428 for the time being...just to DRIVE the car.

Good advice. You can get just as much power out of a 428 block as you can a 427 block, and that power will be wayyyy more than you can ever use. And unless your car is up on a lift, no one but you knows the difference.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Good advice. You can get just as much power out of a 428 block as you can a 427 block, and that power will be wayyyy more than you can ever use. And unless your car is up on a lift, no one but you knows the difference.

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

Getting back to the engine...It's gonna take a while for you to build another 427. Why not just do up a mild 390 or 428 for the time being...just to DRIVE the car. You can always do the 427 killer engine next year. I run a somewhat mild 428 in my car and I love it. It's reliable, somewhat fast, and pretty good on gas. Sure, I'd love a 427 side oiler with 600 HP, but some things are a compromise. I understand your dilemma, and agree that the machinist must be paid, but paid by the block manufacturer, not you. In the meantime, maybe a nice 390 short block can get you on the road, and that's what it's all about. Good luck and keep the faith.

The problem is I have ALL the pieces already for the 427 build. To go to a 390 now I have to store all the 427 parts and start all over again with crank, rods, block, heads, cam - none of this stuff that I have now will work in a 390. My quickest way out of this is to get the block manufacturer off his a$$ and get in gear and get me a block. The machining cost issue is peripheral to the main issue - I need him to get me a block, either cast Iron or aluminum NOW! It is good to hear, however, that at least one of you don't think that I am off base thinking that this guy ought to pay the machinist. I appreciate the input. Sometimes we get so angry and emotional that we are certain that we're in the right, and we really aren't. I wanted to make sure I wasn't putting myself in this position. The opinion of knowledgeable people without a dog in the fight is always appreciated.

[patrickt]

Are you dead-set on a "new" block or could you live with an original? I know there are SO blocks on www.fordfe.com but I do not know the price.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Many serviceable 427 blocks are available at reasonable prices. I've thought of doing one up for myself one of these days. Pond, Genesis or Shelby blocks are not cost effective for me. Plus I like original drive lines.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Are you dead-set on a "new" block or could you live with an original? I know there are SO blocks on www.fordfe.com but I do not know the price.

I'm stuck with an aftermarket block, Patrick. It's a VERY long story, but to make it short, the original Ford sideoiler block I had planned to use ended up with a bad cylinder in it. Rather than sleeving the block the engine builder decided to bore the whole block .047 over and ordered the custom pistons in that size. He then hardblocked the block and assembled it. I was out of town while all this was going on. When I got back I rejected the block and bought a new one. I am using the .047 over pistons we now have because they're already paid for, and they're really good, top quality stuff. Because of the size, however, a Ford block really won't accommodate them, it has to be an aftermarket block.

[patrickt]

... somehow I thought that was the case. A cry for help for an aftermarket block here and on www.fordfe.com is bound to get you one at a modest premium ... I would think.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by patrickt

... somehow I thought that was the case. A cry for help for an aftermarket block here and on www.fordfe.com is bound to get you one at a modest premium ... I would think.

No doubt. Unfortunately this guy has $3600+ of my money, and I have a block doing it's best Swiss Cheese imitation. I really am kind of stuck waiting on him. It sucks, but I really have no other alternative.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

390 crank & rods are the same size as the 427, unless you got a stroker. Yeah, I guess you're between a rock and a hard place. Ya gotta eat $hit until the guy makes it right.
I don't think the block manufacturer has your best interests in mind. If he did, you'd have another block or he'd refund your money. Bad business.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

390 crank & rods are the same size as the 427, unless you got a stroker. Yeah, I guess you're between a rock and a hard place. Ya gotta eat $hit until the guy makes it right.
I don't think the block manufacturer has your best interests in mind. If he did, you'd have another block or he'd refund your money. Bad business.

Yes, you guessed right, it's a fairly sizable stroker package. As far as what the manufacturer has in mind, I'm trying to sit back and see what he comes up with. As soon as I feel that he's blowing me off, I'll be screaming loud and clear, believe me.

Truthfully, I am starting to squirm a bit, my patience is wearing thin. I think I have been fair and honest with this guy, but there is a limit as to how far I am willing to be strung along.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Be sure to let us know what block NOT to buy. That should help him out a bit.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

Be sure to let us know what block NOT to buy. That should help him out a bit.

I'm trying to deal with this from the high road and give him every opportunity to do the right thing. If he doesn't do the same and he leaves me hanging out to dry, believe me everyone will know who this guy is. I am truly hoping it won't come to that. I need two things from him. I need a block ASAP, and I expect him to either cover the machining bill totally, and send me a new iron block, or cover half the machining bill, and send me an aluminum block - his choice. I don't care either way - I just need him to do it ASAP.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

I need a block ASAP, and I expect him to either cover the machining bill totally, and send me a new iron block, or cover half the machining bill, and send me an aluminum block - his choice.

I think that's very reasonable. In the scheme of fights, it would cost both of you more than that just to get someone in your corner.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I think that's very reasonable. In the scheme of fights, it would cost both of you more than that just to get someone in your corner.

I am trying very hard to be reasonable. I hope he understands that.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

I am trying very hard to be reasonable. I hope he understands that.

Just remember that it's very difficult to get money out of people that don't have any. If his business is "skirting the line," then you may be better off taking whatever it is you can get.

[Rick Parker]

IMO it starts with the business that cast the blocks. If it was represented (by the vendor) to you that the block would accept the necessary bore to correct the flaw and you then experienced this problem, the vendor should make it right to you. That being said, the individual or company that cast the block has some incured liability at that point to the vendor as do you to your machinist. Asking or expecting the machinist to be paid by the vendor is not right either. You've all heard the phrase s*it flows downhill (?) It's true. Everyone in sucsession has an obligation to the next in line. The originator (who cast the block) has the greatest exposure. I hate seeing or over hearing people get the "Two Step" when someone else has made a mistake.