427 Windsor Stroker

[Tony Radford]

OK folks, chime in here. I want to hear from anyone who is running a 351 Windsor stroked to 427. Bill Parham is willing to take my existing non-stroked Windsor in trade (with a few additional bucks) towards a 427 stroker. I do like to drive my car, I like to wind it up occasionally and have no intentions of doing any track time. I'm anticipating somewhere in the neighborhood of a 25% HP increase to the 500 range. Should be noticable. I hear the horror stories, CHP disasters and such. I want to hear some testimonials - pro and con.

[Ron61]

Tony,

I think stroaking a 351 out to 427 is pushing it. I have mine at 416 and a friend has his at 410, but most of the people have them in the 396 range and have no problem getting 500+ horsepower. When I had mine built it was originally going to be over 600 horse but I changed my mind and now I wish I had even gone to around 450 horse instead of the 530-550 that I have. I drive mine on the street and my friend had his built out to quite a bit more power than I have and he wishes he hadn't now. Talk to the guys with the ones in the 396 range and they can tell you more.

Ron "")

[Tony Radford]

Ron, why do you feel that you have too much HP? One of my drivers for going 427 is that I have the 427 emblems on my car (I love the look as compared to the SB emblems). I'm probably just stupid for not sticking with what I've got. It sounds great, makes a fair amount of HP and is reliable. I'm not a tinkerer, so I certainly don't want a "hanger queen" in my garage. It just seems that having a 427 stroker would be cool. Wrong thought?

[Ron61]

Tony,

If you are going to race a lot there is no such thing as to much horsepower, but these are light cars. My first two gears even with the posi-trac are almost worthless when coming out of a corner hard. There is nothing at all wrong with having a 427 stroker, they just don't seem to live as long as the lower cubic inches. To get to 427 you have maxed a 351 out just about. And it would give you bragging rights. I have 351 emblems on mine so it is partly correct. But my horsepower comes in at 6,000 RPM and I wish it were lower. When I was originally having the engine built and was going for over 600 horse the power would have came in at around 7,2oo RPM. I had thought I was going to race it only but changed my mind. I have had mine over 100 in 3rd and it was still pulling when the corner came up. And you aren't stupid. Get what you want and like. And if you aren't going to ever push it hard the 427 will most likely last you a long time.

Ron

[GeorgiaSnake]

Tony,

I don't think Bill would offer a 427 SB if he thought it would be a problem. He doesn't need the $, business or headaches that bad

Randy

[John A. Simpson]

Check out the Ford racing block it can go to 4.125 bore and the new Dart block can go to 4.155 ( I think) makes building a Windsor 427 or bigger much easier.

[Sizzler]

at the risk of throwing more complexity at you, you could find yourself an old 400M 'Cleveland' block.

You'll have trouble getting a performance intake for it (need the spacer kit that was available once upon a time).

Benefit is it has a taller deck. Shortcomings are oiling issues, it's a Cleveland, and actually finding parts for it.

Honestly though, if all you want to do is put 427 badges on it, then just do that. It's not like any of the other badges are legit, are they? It's your kit, do with/what/where you want.

[Tony Radford]

Thanks Ron. That's interesting. I must say that my torque band probably couldn't be better. It's pretty linear from 3K on. I much prefer low end torque.

Randy, I'm sure he wouldn't. But an issue that Bill would probably consider "child's play", I would consider "nightmare", being the mechanically-challenged soul that I am. My guess is that a 427 stroker is a bit on the other side of the "tinker-free" spectrum. I just finished replacing a header gasket and I feel winded. I journeyed down to Barnett Performance and purchased a copper gasket set (with space-age goop). I then spent a couple of hours with a dremmel tool and router bit milling out the port openings. Now that the driver's side is leak free, I can hear a leak on the passenger side. I was hoping I wouldn't have to deal with it right now, but I guess I'll break the dremmel tool back out and complete the job. Despite the rationale, I will probably do it anyway. I'm close to giving in to the notion that my Sun Micro will return to $40 in the next couple of months. $3 a share invested in horsepower is better than SUNW.

Clyde, I bought a leather steering wheel. After you showed my yours, I had to have one. Much nicer in looks and feel. Thanks for putting me over the edge.

[hcollado]

I knew this was coming. You have been itching and salivating every time you get around those big blocks .

From my very limited experience in this field of “stroked engines”, I think taking a 351 block all the way to 427 is really pushing it. Just get a 427 with the works.

But what ever you end up getting, be sure it satisfies your needs. So do it, but do it only once. Good luck.

Hector

[DAVID L. VALDEZ]

Hey Tony,
If things do not straighten up here at work with me, economically, I may have a fire breathing monster at a great price for you. You know what I am talking about. I would challenge anyone to show me more bang for the buck. 460 SuperCobraJet, 950 Holley DoublePumper, Edelbrock Victor 460 high rise, five grand in block polishing alone, Weisco flat tops, big cam, MSD with limiter, Nascar close ratio 4 speed top loader and two shift kits, IRS, etc.. Components and computers say she is over the 650 mark now. At 2500 and change on the local Martin Marietta scale, and all those horses, what more could you ask for? I'm a firm believer in Cubic inches. She even sounds great. Look at the pictures I posted on the Manufacturers' gallery (INTEGRITY), and see how much room is left in that engine compartment. Not much. I admit, she won't sit in traffic very long before complaining, but she was not meant to. All the posts I have read said all the fans you can stuff in it may not make it a rush hour vehicle. Shoot me a line!

[Todd Baumann]

Tony,
I have the "427 Classic" from CHP, no upgrades except for putting my Demon carb on it, bought it for a couple of reasons. One was the cool factor, two was the horse power that they advertised, three was the warrenty. I had it shipped to the local distributor, then we broke it in on the dyno approx. 6 hrs total, made sure there were not going to be any problems, once the original break in was done we really flogged it. We also tried a few header combos to see what produced the best results. In the end 529HP @ 5200 RPM & 535 ft/lbs torque @ 3700 RPM all this at the flywheel. I now have it in and about 250 miles on it and just love it. The only thing we have yet to do is run it over to the shop and put it on the chasis dyno and see what we get at the rear wheels. In my opinion you will not regret getting this engine.

Good Luck,
Todd

[Tony Radford]

Hector, I don't know what it is. I'm really not doing it for myself. I'm doing it for my car. I consider myself a very non selfish individual. It's just augmentation.

David, I couldn't get your monster engine into my car without blasting first. I don't want to change cars.

Todd, I'm really interested in how your engine works out for you. After you've had a chance to put it through the paces for a couple of thousand miles. Will your car be "sufficiently exercised or will she be a hanger queen?

[wilf leek]

Tony - my own engine is "just" a 408 (4.03 bore, 4" stroke), and I went that route to stay away from the potential issues with the 427 (rod ratio etc). I am not sure how real those issues are, but being a conservative Brit, I stopped at the 408.
I do not spare the rod with that engine - it regularly sees 6000 rpm, and much full throttle action. In 9500 miles I have had no problems other than a slight coolant weep on one cylinder head.
The figures are good as well - in SAE terms, over 500hp and lbs ft.
Tractable, docile (and cool) in traffic, yet pulls like a tugboat.
I don't think you would be dissappointed going the stroker Windsor route.

HTH

[redUnique]

Tony,

I can't really attest to reliability, but I know of at least two 351w motors stroked to 454. Additionally, I recently spoke with a gentleman from Maysville?, GA (near Commerce) who has stroked one to 508. Again, I don't know if there are reliability issues, but it's amazing how large you can go with these motors.

Joel

[Tony Radford]

Joel, how on earth do you squeeze 673 HP out of a 383 stroker?

[Streetwize]

I have a 427" Windsor in my Midstates cobra, I'm very happy with the powerband but it took a lot of studying ahead of time to make sure the Gearing/cam/powerband would be where I wanted it.

I wanted the broad power of a 'Real' FE 427 without all the weight and heat of a big block. Works perfectly with the Tremec 5 speed and the 3.50 gears. It's got a pretty mellow hydraulic cam but it was matched to a specifically ported Twisted Wedge head and Victor Jr intake that flows really well in the .300-.500" range. Mid lift flow is critical for broad torque and if done right can make more average torque and power than a bigger cam with peak lift flow heads.

[dlampe]

I would urge you to stick to the 408 area with a standard block. I know there are a lot of opinions but the rod angle is too servere for a 427 w/ an OEM block. Spend the money on the block if you really need a 427.

[SPF1061]

I like to drive and I like reliability and I like gobs of torque and hp. I've got it all with a Roush 427R. I do not think for a moment that Roush is the only way to go. it's just the way I chose for my own set of reasons. Keith Kraft, Eric at Performance Engineering and many more well respected engine builders could do just as well. One thing I am sure of, however, is that all of them would start with a Dart or similar beefed up block. You can not build a reliable 427 stroker from a stock 351 block. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

[CHANMADD]

The Windsor 427 is not that strong ...Blocks can split.... With the big stroke, one has to keep the rpm kinda below 6000rpm...... So to put a massive high rev cam is pointless. A 351, or 383 has a better rod-to-stroke ratio so it will easily rev way higher. The Ford also has very large main bearings, resulting in high bearing surface speeds, resulting in spun mains. There are solutions, to easy Chevy main bearing size, which is smaller and revs higher. The rod ratio is probably one of the most important overlooked things.

[blykins]

Most 427ci small blocks are built with aftermarket blocks these days. They will support well over 1000 hp.

Rod-to-stroke ratios are pointless. It's just a meaningless number and has absolutely ZERO to do with how an engine revs.

Large main bearing diameters do not result in spun bearings. A 429/460 has the same size mains as a 351W but yet we all use them in extremely high rpm, high horsepower pulling truck engines.

The aftermarket Windsor blocks DO NOT USE Chevy main bearing sizes. None. The aftermarket blocks use Ford Cleveland main bearing sizes.

Too many wives tales and utter nonsense in this thread. Holy cow.