Bad Starter

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Sixty bucks is about as low as I can find one with decent accuracy. Craftsman Clamp On AC/DC Meter

Thanks Pat

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by Dominik

You might want to connect a cable direct from the negative battery terminal to the starter. This is a place where I don't save weight. I use 50 square welder cable. Not sure how that converts into gauge thickness in the US of A.

To check for losses, use a jumper cable - also with a decent area/cable size ("Diesel" engine jumper cable) from your Battery to starter.

I was just reading about this last night on another car forum while I was research grounding procedures and straps.
These guys were some real wizards for sure. They said the best way to run the grounds are to go from the BAT directly to a bolt near the starter. From there, go to the frame. They gave some real good reasons why not to go to the frame first from the NEG on the BAT like our ERA cars

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by patrickt

That strap was a supplemental ground that was in addition to the black ERA ground wire. Yes, I turned on my lights and fans and then measured the current running through that wire and it seemed a bit high. You can not just disconnect the wire and run it in series with your multimeter unless you have a very special multimeter that will measure higher amperage. Most multimeters can only measure very tiny amounts of current that way.

That braided strap had to have two different ends. The one for the firewall is only 1/4', the manifold bolts are way bigger requiring a bigger eyelet. Do you recall where you got the cable?. I see a lot of companies sell cables in bulk, but I cant find much info on putting on your own custom terminals.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

That braided strap had to have two different ends. The one for the firewall is only 1/4', the manifold bolts are way bigger requiring a bigger eyelet. Do you recall where you got the cable?. I see a lot of companies sell cables in bulk, but I cant find much info on putting on your own custom terminals.

It was a Dorman "HELP" Grounding Strap that I bought at Auto Zone.

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by patrickt

That strap was a supplemental ground that was in addition to the black ERA ground wire. Yes, I turned on my lights and fans and then measured the current running through that wire and it seemed a bit high. You can not just disconnect the wire and run it in series with your multimeter unless you have a very special multimeter that will measure higher amperage. Most multimeters can only measure very tiny amounts of current that way.

Thanks for the strap info..I will check them out and see what they have.
I borrowed a friends big Snap on Amp reading tool, here is a pic.
After I figure it out I started testing all kinds of stuff. At first I could not get it to work.. but when I put it across a few fuses and got readings, I went back to the wire. Seems the key has to be on to get a reading on the wire, but not on the fuses. With the big snap on gauge I got a little less than 2 amps with the wipers, high beams, and fan on. No horn, blinkers or brake lights After I realized I would not blow my multi-meter I did it with that and the most I got was .07 ish, it was jumping around a little. I don't know why the discrepancy between the two gages?
What would you consider to be normal here? I'm thinking nothing should be running thru that wire?

[patrickt]

You can not test current by putting on a parallel connection (meaning you just touch the tool's clips to two points on a wire that is still hooked up). You have to disconnect the wire you are testing for current and then attach the tool's lead in series in order to measure amperage. That's the advantage of an inductive ammeter, you don't have to disconnect anything. You just clamp the meter around the wire and take your reading.

[davids2toys]

Yes, I understand this and that is exactly what I did for this ground wire. However , when testing the CB from the Alternator thread Alternator / Voltage Regulator , I just went from stud to stud and disconnected no wires. . I guess my thinking was I just wanted to see what was running thru the breaker. Maybe that is why the very low reading. I will post this last part on that thread to avoid confusion to future readers.

[patrickt]

I remember my Auto Shop teacher forty years ago saying "checking amperage is a pain in the ass. If it seems quick and easy, then you're doing it wrong." We didn't have an inductive ammeter back then. Now it's pretty much a breeze. The only trick you have to remember is that if the wire that's feeding your load, like your fans for instance, has both the positive and negative wire in it, then you can't clamp around both of them at the same time. Other than that, it's pretty hard to do it wrong.

[Detroit Bill]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

Well after a day and 1/2 of screwing with it, my technical more skilled older brother came over and I pulled the starter again and out of the car it would engage, but would only once in the car. So we pulled the cover / cap off of the solenoid on the starter and noticed when taking apart a loose screw on the solenoid cap. We pulled it apart and could see where it was arcing to the case. After cleaning / filing some contacts on the solenoid, we tested it and it worked outside the car. We put it back in the car and it worked. Has started several times. I let it warm up and tried it and it worked fine. I think for safety reasons I will buy a backup and put it in the trunk. At least I know what the problem is now.

You might want to install the new one and put the old one as a spare in the trunk.

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I remember my Auto Shop teacher forty years ago saying "checking amperage is a pain in the ass. If it seems quick and easy, then you're doing it wrong." We didn't have an inductive ammeter back then. Now it's pretty much a breeze. The only trick you have to remember is that if the wire that's feeding your load, like your fans for instance, has both the positive and negative wire in it, then you can't clamp around both of them at the same time. Other than that, it's pretty hard to do it wrong.

Not fully understanding this about the pos and neg wired to it?
So what would be the correct way to measure the amperage going thru that CB?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

Not fully understanding this about the pos and neg wired to it?
So what would be the correct way to measure the amperage going thru that CB?

Just clamp it around the 10 gauge brown wire coming off the top of the circuit breaker and it will tell you the amps that are running through it. Now, if you look at a typical SPAL electric fan, you will see that it has what looks like one fat black plastic wire running to the electric motor. Inside the black plastic wire are two separate wires, one red and one black. You can not just clamp your ammeter around the big plastic wire. You have to separate the two wires inside (red and black) and clamp your meter around one of them to get a correct reading. Not both at the same time.

[davids2toys]

Brown wire, got it!

Yes, I watched a few videos yesterday and the two wire thing makes perfect sense with the opposite magnetic fields canceling each other out.
Thanks

[davids2toys]

Brown wire, got it!

Yes, I watched a few videos yesterday and the two wire thing makes perfect sense with the opposite magnetic fields canceling each other out.
Thanks

[Large Arbor]

As in my other post, I have starter issues again. I think its from the wrong size starter bolt holes allowing the starter to slide ever so little. I will try shimming and have fixed the bolt hole part of the starter casing by building some copper bushings. If that does not work it will be back to Jegs to try again with a new starter and bushings in the starter casing.

Phil

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

As in my other post, I have starter issues again. I think its from the wrong size starter bolt holes allowing the starter to slide ever so little. I will try shimming and have fixed the bolt hole part of the starter casing by building some copper bushings. If that does not work it will be back to Jegs to try again with a new starter and bushings in the starter casing.

Phil

Phil, shoot Rick Lake a PM. He has more experience with tricky starter motor problems than anyone I know around here.

[Large Arbor]

I did just that and sent pics as well. I suspect the starter was moving around as initially it worked fine. Over time it loosened and that created the problems. I will sleve the larger starter casing bolt holes and take up the slack, eliminating the possible movement. COuld not get a ring gear within 24 hours so I will stick a new flywheel on as well. Hopefully will put it all back together tomorrow.

phil