ERA Brake Upgrade Questions

[Argess]

Thanks Guys. I have decided to go with the SSBC calipers. Only quesiton now is with regards to purging the DOT 5. Obviously an opportune time when I am changing calipers. There's another post currently going on where the ability to change fluid types without ruining the seals is being discussed. I need to do some more reasearch on potential problem first.

[Excaliber]

I had Wilwood on my Excalibur, power brakes, really powerful with little effort. HARD to modulate! I find the non-power stock ERA brakes have a better feel. Certainly require some pedal effort, but easier to modulate "just" to the point of impending lockup.

Dot 5 to Dot 4, the issues of purge are WAY overblown, in my opinion. Just do it!

[Jim Holden]

Jose:

Maybe if you would stand up from your computer desk and go outside for a little walk each day, you might develope a little leg strength. At the rate you're going, your daughter is going to be wheeling you around in a wheel chair before too long.

Jim

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Jim Holden

Maybe if you would stand up from your computer desk and go outside for a little walk each day, you might develope a little leg strength. At the rate you're going, your daughter is going to be wheeling you around in a wheel chair before too long.

Well that just earned you an invitation to the sensitivity classes several of us attend on Tuesday & Thursday nights.

[Jim Holden]

You have to meet my good friend, Jose, from that little island somewhere in the Atlantic. His ERAGT has power brakes and he wanted power steering as well... and he may still get it, too. I told him he should simply automate the car completely and run it by remote control from the pits...

Jim

[jose velez]

Originally Posted by Jim Holden

You have to meet my good friend, Jose, from that little island somewhere in the Atlantic. His ERAGT has power brakes and he wanted power steering as well... and he may still get it, too. I told him he should simply automate the car completely and run it by remote control from the pits...

Jim

Power Brake and steering is called development. The ERAGT need power brake specially if you have big 13" brakes. Even my motorcycle has twin brembo brakes in front with ABS and stops without effort. You only use your ERAGT from the trailer to the tent. Anything farther you use the Slab Side ERA Cobra with narrow wheels that requires no effort to steer it.

[Gunner]

I had a friend who was restoring a '50s Willys and made much of its "Armstrong steering and Manpower brakes." Until you've driven a big vehicle with knuckle steering and mechanical brakes you ain't learned to appreciate modern miracles like rack and pinion and hydraulic brakes... never mind power assist!

[Excaliber]

Power Brake and steering is called development.

...time stopped in 1965, did it start up again when I wasn't looking?

[Jim Holden]

Jose:

A litlle leg and upper thigh development would be a lot cheaper and not take up Bob Putnam's time...

...as for driving, I do give you credit for (sporadically) turning a lap or two (and, apparently exhausted from the effort, then going to lunch) in your GT. For my laps, I have "Mad Max" where the only "power" is found in pressing down on the right pedal.

Jim

[Argess]

I've done some Googling on the DOT3/4 vs DOT 5 and changing flushing thing. Here's what I found:

DOT 5:

Somewhat more compressible than DOT3 or 4, so the pedal may feel a bit "spongy".

Won't absorb water, which has its pros and cons. The con being any water that does get in, is concentrated in one spot and can rust things from the inside. The pro being it won't "suck" water in from around the caliper seals.

Won't hurt paint.

Is compatable with all rubbber or plastic seals.

It is almost impossible to flush a system out without dismantling and cleaning all components that contain seals. De-natured alcohol can be used to flush lines, but the possibility of water being aborbed is there during the time the lines are not connected to the other brake components.

When mixed with DOT 3 or 4, it creates a "gell" or jelly like substance that can create brake malfunctions, especially in the master cylinder.

Dot 3 or 4 may deteriorate seals depending on the seal's original desing intent.

So, based on all this, I think I'll leave the DOT 5 in there for now. And to be truthful, dismantling the rear inboard brakes for cleaning doesn't appeal to me in the least. When those rear calipers need replacing, maybe I'll change to DOT 4 then.

[Excaliber]

And to be truthful, dismantling the rear inboard brakes for cleaning doesn't appeal to me in the least.

Man is THAT a massive understatement!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Man is THAT a massive understatement!

That was the single overriding reason I went with the ERA rear. I don't drive the car hard enough to take advantage of the small performance difference the ERA rear gives over the standard Jag rear.

[Jim Holden]

You can change the pads on the inboard brakes (with only modest difficulty) without having to drop the rear, but changing calipers is a bear unless you drop the entire rear cage (albeit still easier than dropping an XKE rear in the Jag cage... I've done both).

Jim

[Argess]

Inboard brakes give you less (better) unsprung weight.

Inboard brakes can be difficult to keep cool under continuous hard use (racing)

So, performance sort of balances out

Maintenance on the other hand.......

I think I'd remove the whole rear cage and work on it then if it were discs or calipers needing attention. Just pads, I can probably do it via the access panel behind the seats or posssibly from under the car.

By the way, I don't think ERA offered the outboard brake rear end when I bought my car, but it looks like a nice option.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Argess

Maintenance on the other hand.......

It doesn't get much easier than this....

[Excaliber]

Strictlypersonal (Bob from ERA) has mentioned it is not that big of a deal to lower the entire rear cage. Basically 4 bolts, or something like that. I dunno, I looked at that possibility and decided I'd rather eat glass...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Strictlypersonal (Bob from ERA) has mentioned it is not that big of a deal to lower the entire rear cage.

Thus the term "cage fighting." He's also gone on record as saying the unsprung weight of the Jag and ERA rear are pretty much the same. I believe him on this latter point.

[Argess]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Thus the term "cage fighting." He's also gone on record as saying the unsprung weight of the Jag and ERA rear are pretty much the same. I believe him on this latter point.

I would believe him too. A fine fellow, Bob P is. But it may be a matter of number manipulation. If you do it as a percentage, everything is much closer if in both cases, you add the weight of a wheel and tire into the equation. Mind you, how many Cobra owners drive over rough roads or worse, drive it hard over rough roads, so unsprng weight is probably a non-issue anyway.

[Argess]

It's quite easy.....not quite 4 bolts though. You also need to disconnect the rear brake line, emergency brake and 4 bolts from the driveshaft.

What's tricky, is having the car high enough up that you can pull the cage out from under the car. And you need one of those motorcycle/ride-on lawnmower/ATV jacks to hold the weight of the whole rear suspension and lower it down.

I put mine in before the body was on and before the gas tank was in, and that made it pretty easy. But not quick.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Argess

It's quite easy.....not quite 4 bolts though. You also need to disconnect the rear brake line, emergency brake and 4 bolts from the driveshaft.

-then disconnect the left and right trailing arms from the ball sockets, then the L & R 15/16" headed, cage to chassis bolts.

Doesn't hurt to have the gas tank out of the way. It's a good time to polish it.