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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 04:47 PM
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Default FFR Mark I Steering

My fathers FFR Mark I is set up with 17" wheels and tires, the rest of the combo is pretty much what you would expect on a Mark I. The problem is the steering, it is very scary turning in to corners. You had better be ready when you turn the wheel. There is nothing between going straight and making a right angle turn it seems. The car does not have any sway bars, although we want to add a front bar to help with this issue. I have wondered if it could be a problem with the (probably fox mustang) rack and pinion, but I have not read of any others experiencing the same problem.

The car has been to an allignment shop, and set to fox Mustang specs.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jeff
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 06:36 PM
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What are the Mustang spec.s they set it to? Have you set it to the FFR spec.s? I am sending you a PM on sway bars.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2010, 06:52 PM
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Is this something new? or has it always been that way?

Sway bars won't help you.

The FFR front end is pretty simple. Nothing fancy or complicated about it. That's good, because it makes it easy to fix.

The first thing to check is everything. Pull the wheels off, check all the bolts, bearings, steering rack, etc. Make sure nothing is loose or worn out.

The second thing is alignment. This is a big issue, especially with the MI. If your alignment specs are not dead on, it's a handfull.

Finally, check bump steer.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:14 PM
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The car has exhibited the behavoir since we aquired it.

When the car went in for an allingment, it was noted that a rod end was worn out, so it was replaced. I assume everythig else was checked, but it will be checked again. We do not have any documentation that calls out the allingment specs from FFR. The build manual is very light. I believe the tech. looked up a Fox body Mustang and used those specs. I don't recall what they were. Please pass along the specs if you have them.

If this is a bump steer issue would it happen on smoothe roads? On a nice flat surface it still has this issue.
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:06 AM
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During a turn, the outside suspension is compressed, if you have enough bump steer, you'll get erratic behavior.

For the street, I use these alignment specs:

Ride Height: 3.5" Front, 4.5" rear
.25 camber
2.5 Caster
1/32" toe in.

I have manual steering, with a FR rack. I use differant specs for the track.
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Old 05-13-2010, 06:07 PM
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If it is a bump steer issue a sway bar would (I think) help by keeping the suspension from compressing so much.

Are the ride height specs measured from top of tire to wheel opening? I think this will be a good place to start, as the car looks high in the front, however the rear is not set up with coil overs, and not adjustable. Once getting the ride set, we will get it realigned, possibly then go ahead and add a sway bar.

Thanks for all of the tips.

Last edited by puppster; 05-13-2010 at 06:10 PM..
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2010, 07:20 PM
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No, a sway bar will not change your bump steer. A sway bar is mostly used to fine tune the car in hard corners. Alignment and ride height settings are done with the sway bars disconnected.

Ride height is measured between the round tube frame and the ground, at the very front and very rear of the tube. It's important to set this correctly before doing anything else. Changes in ride height will affect the other measurements/adjustments.
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:39 PM
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Thanks for the advice. I think these details will make a difference. It's like tuning a carb... you can't skip these important steps, and you can't do things out of order. I'll report progress, but it may be a few weeks before we can get to it.

Jeff
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Old 05-22-2010, 08:29 PM
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If its a mk1 you may want to slap in a set of offset steering rack bushings.. you need to go to www.ffcars.com to ask this question.
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:02 PM
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Do these bushings offset the rack forward in the car? I have asked over at ffcobra before, and I did not get as much help as I have recieved here.

I am plannig to see the family next weekend, and hope to have time to crawl around on the ground. I'll post an update after the holiday.

ps. I just found the offset bushings at Jegs. I understand that they will move the rack up in the car, so my question is. Is there something that indexes the bushing to keep it from spinning? From looking at the picture, it seems that the movement of the rack would force them to rotate, leaving the rack lower in the car.

Last edited by puppster; 05-23-2010 at 07:11 PM..
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2010, 09:56 PM
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If you raise the rack but use standard tie rod ends, the angle of the steering rods will be pretty severe. You need to use a bump steer kit that moves the rod end to the top of the steering arm.

If you don't use a bump steer kit you can use the rack bushing to lower the rack in the frame; which improves the angle while using the stock tie rod ends.

http://www.breezeautomotive.com/deta...=139&cat_id=12
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Old 05-31-2010, 07:36 AM
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Finally had a chance to see my Dad and his car. We found that the car was sitting high in the front and low in the back. We adjusted the rear to 4.75 like the manual says, and the front to 4.5, all with a person in the front seat. We then checked to camber which seemed good, with a small amount of negative camber (between 1/2deg and zero, and we reset the toe to approximatly 1/16' toe in. I just noticed that you sugested .25 deg camber, I assume you did mean it as positive.

This has helped some, but the car still is overly responsive to steering input. Due to at large Canton oil pan hanging down below the scatter shield, we are not willing to lower the car to the suggested specs above. May need to change the pan in the future.

Not sure what to do next, we wanted to remove a front coil over, and measure the bump steer, but we ran out of time. Dad would like to install a slower rack. Does any one have a suggestion for a rack that will help with bumpsteer in a mark I by shortening or lengthening the inner tie rod positions?
I know he wouldn't mind the easier steering, and he's never going autocrossing. The unit in the car looks like it's right out of a loaner car.
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Old 05-31-2010, 09:44 AM
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The camber should be around negative 1/2 to 1 deg.
Don
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-31-2010, 09:50 AM
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What you probably have is a Mustang rack, for power steering. That has a ratio of 15:1 , IIRC.

I use a Flaming River rack, 15:1; which is considered a quick ratio. I find it to be just about perfect for what I do. Steering is very responsive, but not in the least bit scary. FR also makes a rack that is a standard 20:1, which is probably more of what you want.

http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cf...prod/prd41.htm

But keep in mind this is a sports car. It's supposed to be very responsive. Not as much as you describes; I agree this is a problem. But even with a higher ratio rack, it will turn very sharply.

I would take a close look at these parts from Breeze automotive. Might be just what you need.

http://www.breezeautomotive.com/deta...=364&cat_id=12
http://www.breezeautomotive.com/deta...=485&cat_id=12
http://www.breezeautomotive.com/home.php?cat_id=12
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Old 05-31-2010, 11:34 AM
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This is a help, but I did notice that the complete kit from Breeze shows a tie rod end that looks like a stock Mustang part. This is not what we have....This is getting more interesting all the time, since the car was purchased complete from a private owner.
What we have is a rod end type joint mounted to the top of the steering knuckle. I assume this was done to improve a bump steer issue? Anyhow, I am now wondering if we could even bo back to a stock set up. Is the knuckle drilled out to allow the top mounting of the tie rod?
I think the allingment is pretty good at this point. Best we can do in the garage with few tools.
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