427 FE vs 351w, advantages?

[Jerry Clayton]

Scat 4340 forged 4 inch stroke counterweights cut for 6.2 rod length Cleveland main size===55 lbs

[fordracing65]

Any bb that people claim over 8000rpm redline would cost more than the car and or would only last 500 miles, think nascar motor, revs high, don't last.

[madmaxx]

Blykins I always value your opinion. I always go to the extreme when trying to understand something. I would think a 500 hp 351 stroked to 427 would outperform a big block (427,460,482) putting out 500hp due to less rotational mass assuming same driver, same car.

References to big or small blocks turning 7,8,9,10K rpms is not applicable to 99% of cobra owners or the old farts on this forumn. I would guess most do not go north of 5K rpm by the silly analogies I hear about kidney killing acceleration. True these cars are fast compared to a honday, lexus but nothing as compared to a "race car".

As far as longevity of a properly stroked small block I would think 100K miles is reasonable if the right components are used. Roller rockers, heavy duty pushrods, balanced rotating assembly etc.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

I would think a 500 hp 351 stroked to 427 would outperform a big block (427,460,482) putting out 500hp due to less rotational mass assuming same driver, same car.

Well, if you compare two different displacements, bores, strokes, etc., then it's really not a valid comparison. A 482ci FE has a longer stroke, larger bore, etc., than a 427SBF and it will also make a higher average horsepower/torque that you could feel across the whole curve.

As for even displacements across engine families, if they make the same horsepower and torque, I honestly don't think there would be enough difference between them to say that one car would walk off and leave the other because of rotating assembly weight.

Rod, Google "buttload".

[Jerry Clayton]

The longer stroke 351 stroked to 4.125 will not rev or perform as well as the 3.78 427!!!!

[D-CEL]

Sigh.......
When Ex speaks, everyone looks around to see who just sh-arted

Fe-tardation rears its ugly head yet again

Rod,
I sure hope he gets a Lakewood, Couple the FE's legendary propencity for random and unexplainable self destruction and the Quicktimes proven inability to contain a pop-corn fart let alone an actual flywheel failure and the author will likey need a new motor and and hand controls in his replica....
(that was a Joke!! settle down kids!!)
I feel better now...

On a seperate note Congrats to Blitz, proving that Cobras beat Ferraris....Yesterday, Today and long into future

[Avmaviator]

Interesting discussions (honestly)

So I have narrowed it down to a few things for my engine build that I know I want.

Aluminum 427 FE block (Genesis, or Pond)
Aluminum heads
Injection with the retro looking stacks.
And want the smoothest running engine ever

That should take care of the "Kirkham FE need" for the engine.

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

As for crank weights---today I balanced a couple of engines--

That means the BB crank is 32% heavier than a SB crank. The rest of the rotating and reciprocating assembly is probably a lot closer in weight. But still, you can expect the entire assembly to around 30% heavier. That's a lot. A tire and wheel assembly that's 5# lighter is a real boon to the racer. So why wouldn't a similar weight savings inside the engine provide a similar benifit?

I'm not arguing with anyone, I'm asking the question. I sure would like to see real data on that sort of thing. Not only HP and torque on an rpm scale, but also on a time scale. I think that would be interesting.

Originally Posted by madmaxx

With a difference of 14.5lb (alot of ounces) it would be impossible for the dumptruck big block to rev as fast as the small block. One truck engine will be linear in acceleration where the small block will be exponential. It comes down to performance or looks. A 500hp small block will beat any 500hp or larger big block in a blast from zero to 60. The small block will spool up faster and more than 500hp in a cobra cannot be effectively put to the pavement.

I wouldn't think it would be imposible, but I think it would be difficult. I think (but could be wrong) that if you built similar Windser and FE engines (compression, head specs, cam, etc) and raced them, the SB would win. The rotating assembly is lighter, and most likely quicker. The BB is heavier all around, and weight is the enemy of any race car.

And, yes, you can put more than 500hp to the ground effectivly. It's been done many times. It's just not easy.

Besides, who really cares about HP anyway? It's torque and area under the curve that matters. The slightly longer stroke of the FE may give that engine an advantage.

[Jerry Clayton]

The FE427 has a 3.78 stroke--the windsor 427 will be 4.125
the bb will win because of bigger valve sizes

[fordracing65]

I care about hp, torque is so overrated in a 2300 pound car, tq is for towing and heavy vehicles, spinning the tires with 600 ft tq sounds cool, Ill wait for the bb at the finish line, and on a road course forget about it, revs is what wins on the track, not tq.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by Avmaviator

Interesting discussions (honestly)

So I have narrowed it down to a few things for my engine build that I know I want.

Aluminum 427 FE block (Genesis, or Pond)
Aluminum heads
Injection with the retro looking stacks.
And want the smoothest running engine ever

That should take care of the "Kirkham FE need" for the engine.

I will recommend that you use the Pond....

[blykins]

Torque plays a bigger role than what you think.....otherwise you have a small block version of a Honda VTEC...

If you haven't ridden in a Cobra with about 600hp/600lb-ft, I suggest you do so.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

I will recommend that you use the Pond....

Me too. If you do a search here on CC and on the FE Forum, then you will find that Genesis has had production and delivery issues. That was in the recent past, but things may have changed. Talk to your engine builder.

Also, if you plan to use EFI, then plan for a lot of tuning time, your time or others, to get your engine operating "smoothly."

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

I care about hp, torque is so overrated in a 2300 pound car, tq is for towing and heavy vehicles, spinning the tires with 600 ft tq sounds cool, Ill wait for the bb at the finish line, and on a road course forget about it, revs is what wins on the track, not tq.

Torque gets you moving, and HP keeps you there. Torque is what pulls you out of the corners, and up the hills.

I have raced against high HP and low torque cars. Their top speed is higher than mine. But I can outrun them because I get up to speed quicker, and pull the hills without shifting.

[Jerry Clayton]

Is this racing or track days?

[Excaliber]

So, D-Cel, how many FE's did you see at the last cruise in or car show you went too?

How many small blocks?

zzzzzzzzzz...... Oops, even typing the words small block almost put me to sleep.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

and the Quicktimes proven inability to contain a pop-corn fart

What's a popcorn fart? Has this been tested and do we have video? Has the QT bellhousing been SFI 6.1 fart-rated?

Do you always grind on big block Fords and Quicktime in all your posts? Can we all just get along to quote the words of a famous philosopher? No, not you Patrick.

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

So, D-Cel, how many FE's did you see at the last cruise in or car show you went too?

How many small blocks?

zzzzzzzzzz...... Oops, even typing the words small block almost put me to sleep.

Usually less big blocks at shows. People don't want em. Too heavy overall in static weight (nose heavy car). To much rotational weight. Too much reciprocating weight. They just dont build power. Like a big torque, slow to rev truck engine.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAH


.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Can we all just get along to quote the words of a famous philosopher? No, not you Patrick.

No, if we all got along then I would be relegated to just looking at a picture of an ERA up on the wall.

[Excaliber]

CobraEd,,,, I did get a chuckle out of that post.