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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2016, 07:55 PM
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Where's "Thor maine"? OK, I'll be his surrogate here.

We all should be running Chevy's, specifically the LSx series. Next time I'm running a "real" engine in my Cobra.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2016, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimis View Post
EDIT By the time I finish my thoughts, get distracted by the NBA game, then interrupted by work sheesh... and type them up, Phil has already quite eloquently summed it up for me... Yeah, what he said. ^
76ers-Timberwolves or Bulls-Jazz? You're easily distracted if either one.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 03:35 AM
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I think the weight of the Pond cast iron block would probably be an aberration. It's cast heavier in many spots and as a result, will hold 1000+ hp and will take a 4.400"+ bore size. Keep in mind that going from that factory standard 4.233"-4.250" bore size to a 4.310"-4.375"-4.400" bore takes out a LOT of weight....

I have a factory 427 S/O block here, I think they weigh somewhere around 195 lbs.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 05:18 AM
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Three words for porosity issues... Vacuum Casting Impregnation. The OEMs use it quite often on their aluminum castings. I used it on my Dove 2x4 Tunnel Wedge intake. Dove pretty much invented casting porosity, lol...

The VCI process is a wondrous thing. The item (block, intake manifold, alloy trans/differential housing etc) is placed in a vacuum chamber and the chamber is drawn down to about 50 microns (29.86" of vacuum or there abouts). The vacuum is then broke with a highly viscous, permeable and hardening fluid. Since every minute and not so minute pour is under vacuum too the fluid fills the voids completely. The fluid after hardening is completely durable and good to any temperature that the aluminum itself could stand. It will last as long as the part does.

On the down side, all machining must be accomplished prior to the process. For a block the process would be around $200. Volume draws down the costs too.

Just a technical tidbit that may or may not be useful.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by undy View Post
For a block the process would be around $200. Volume draws down the costs too.
OK, so for the price of a good dinner you can virtually eliminate, not just mitigate, the porosity concerns of an aluminum block? Uhhhh, this is starting to sound pretty easy....
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 05:27 AM
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OK, so for the price of a good dinner you can virtually eliminate, not just mitigate, the porosity concerns of an aluminum block? Uhhhh, this is starting to sound pretty easy....
The company I used (can't remember their name offhand) did volume V6 block castings for Mazda and Toyota and differential/transmission housings for Chebby. There were other OEMs they did business with too. Contrary to other thoughts here, the OEMs also have significant problems with aluminum castings too. Technology, high dollar machinery and processes can't "mitigate" all porosity problems. It seems like it's just the nature of the beast.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 05:37 AM
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OK, so for the price of a good dinner you can virtually eliminate, not just mitigate, the porosity concerns of an aluminum block? Uhhhh, this is starting to sound pretty easy....
Yeah, you forgot about the cost of freighting that engine block back and forth, which could be at least $150 on a one-way trip.....plus the "down-time" for the customer. I don't spend $500 on dinner.

It's been interesting to see the priorities and selling points from the customer side. Should have made this a poll, but it looks like the majority of guys looking for aluminum block builds are in it for the bling.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 08:06 AM
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Bling. The 150lbs weight savings is a big deal. Go to a gym. Take 3 45lbs plates and a 25lbs plate and strap it to the front of the car and tell me you can't tell the difference. Weight matters. Even if you're not racing. These are not daily drivers so why not build them like a race car. But you're right. If you don't want to build aluminum fe's dont. The next guy will. Just be up front when you make that decision with the customer, in the beginning.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 08:09 AM
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That may be a compelling argument if the engine were in the very front of the car.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 08:09 AM
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I don't spend $500 on dinner.
Stick with me, son... Just pass those additional costs on to the customer. If you sell it right, they'll be appreciative of the care and concern you're displaying. And if they don't want to spring for what seems like a really smart <$500 add-on, then they have a problem that you can't fix and you can then walk away from the work.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 08:14 AM
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If it were 100% viable, it may be an option.

However, I don't want the hassle. I can make money on other engines that don't require the same amount of risk, or extra steps.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 08:17 AM
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Alright, I'll still buy you a Porterhouse at 21 Club.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordracing65 View Post
Bling. The 150lbs weight savings is a big deal. Go to a gym. Take 3 45lbs plates and a 25lbs plate and strap it to the front of the car and tell me you can't tell the difference. Weight matters. Even if you're not racing. These are not daily drivers so why not build them like a race car.
That would be 160 lbs no?

Weight does matter. I didn't buy the alloy block for bling. I bought it for the increased gas mileage.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 08:39 AM
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That would be 160 lbs no?

Weight does matter. I didn't buy the alloy block for bling. I bought it for the increased gas mileage.
Yes. But the when they cast these plates sometimes they are not the correct weight. Lol
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 08:39 AM
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Just to stir the pot a bit, if some of you really are that concerned about the weight of your car, how about the weight added when you stuff yourselves into the drivers seat.
From reading many of these posts in the past, I get the feeling that some of you can barely fit behind the steering wheel.
Just think, if you had an aluminum engine AND brought your weight down to your table weight. Some of your cars could get 300-400 lbs lighter. Think of the performance gains.
I normally drive with my wife in the car. She weighs in at 123 lbs. when I go on a solo drive, without that extra 123 lbs in the car, my car becomes a whole lot faster and scarier to drive.

Just sayin!
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 08:47 AM
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Yes. But the when they cast these plates sometimes they are not the correct weight. Lol
I'm not sure what plates you're using, but I only use American made competition bumper plates made specifically for actual competitions.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by jhv48 View Post
Just to stir the pot a bit, if some of you really are that concerned about the weight of your car, how about the weight added when you stuff yourselves into the drivers seat.
From reading many of these posts in the past, I get the feeling that some of you can barely fit behind the steering wheel.
Just think, if you had an aluminum engine AND brought your weight down to your table weight. Some of your cars could get 300-400 lbs lighter. Think of the performance gains.
I normally drive with my wife in the car. She weighs in at 123 lbs. when I go on a solo drive, without that extra 123 lbs in the car, my car becomes a whole lot faster and scarier to drive.

Just sayin!
I weight 170lbs. I would need to loose 150lbs to negotiate the block weight. A 20lb man. Don't think so.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2016, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhv48 View Post
Just to stir the pot a bit, if some of you really are that concerned about the weight of your car, how about the weight added when you stuff yourselves into the drivers seat.
From reading many of these posts in the past, I get the feeling that some of you can barely fit behind the steering wheel.
Just think, if you had an aluminum engine AND brought your weight down to your table weight. Some of your cars could get 300-400 lbs lighter. Think of the performance gains.
I normally drive with my wife in the car. She weighs in at 123 lbs. when I go on a solo drive, without that extra 123 lbs in the car, my car becomes a whole lot faster and scarier to drive.

Just sayin!
I hear this arguement a lot with bikes. But the truth is even a fatties are entitled to the perceived performance benefits of lighter carbon bikes.
They might not be faster than ,"slim fit Jim", but they still feel the difference.

Ps. Nothing wrong with a little "bling", it's not a dirty word.
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Old 11-18-2016, 09:18 AM
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Alright, I'll still buy you a Porterhouse at 21 Club.
You do realize that most of your schtick goes over people's heads.

Do they have vegie burgers?
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Old 11-18-2016, 09:20 AM
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You do realize that most of your schtick goes over people's heads.

Do they have vegie burgers?
Yes, sadly I do realize that. And, yes, we can get you a veggie burger if you really want one.
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