Keith Craft Inc.- We service what we sell!!! Check out our Cobra engines!!! We build high performance racing engines and components for the fast pace strip racing industry as well as daily drivers who want to be FIRST!!!

FE Forums sponsored by Keith Craft Inc.


Welcome to Club Cobra.

You are currently viewing the world's largest resource for Shelby related information as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!


Go Back   Club Cobra > Engine Building, Tuning, and Induction > FE TALK

Welcome to Club Cobra!  The World's largest non biased Shelby Cobra related site!

  •  » Representation from nearly all Cobra/Daytona/GT40 manufacturers
  •  » Help from all over the world for your questions
  •  » Build logs for you and all members
  •  » Blogs
  •  » Image Gallery
  •  » Many thousands of members and nearly 1 million posts! 

YES! I want to register an account for free right now!  p.s.: For registered members this ad will NOT show

Keith Craft Racing
Nevada Classics
Main Menu
Nevada Classics
Nevada Classics
MMG Superformance
Advertise at CC
Banner Ad Rates
Keith Craft Racing
MMG Superformance
Keith Craft Racing
December 2017
S M T W T F S
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31            

Kirkham Motorsports

Like Tree12Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #81 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2017, 03:20 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance, 427 FE
Posts: 89
Not Ranked     
Default

I have talked to him on the phone and he has been very helpful for sure. I have been gaining knowledge as the build moves forward. I will probably be talking to him directly again next week.
__________________
If enough people disagree with me, I know I am doing it right
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links
  #82 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2017, 11:31 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance, 427 FE
Posts: 89
Not Ranked     
Default

Well I spent a lot of time with my builder yesterday. Kind of nice to have a local shop (within 100 miles) doing the work. I even got to touch my 427 Pond block .... Woo Hoo
He has been going through his check list on the block and making tweaks here and there.
We have now changed the intake to a Edelbrock Performer RPM as opposed to the Performer 390 that was on the 428. We are adding a windage tray. Going with hydraulic lifters. The lifter choice was more to do with the new motor oils than performance. Still working out the cam spec and my builder will be talking directly with Brent today. It will be a custom grind and not off the rack. It needs good vacuum for the brakes.

I do want to keep lift under 600 since that is what Edelbrock says is max for the head/valve/spring. I have read so many posts here and it seems most failures come from valve train or intake gasket. I saw some horrific crank damage here too, but hopefully the scat crank has me past that.
Bud and I discussed what parts would be best if we wanted the most trouble free miles even if it cost HP.
We are studding the head and (your gonna hate this) using reworked and ceramic coated stock rockers. The heads will get some cleaning up, but not going overboard with the polishing.

Understand that I have owned my cobra since 2005 with the 428. Supposedly 400 HP and 500 LB FT. I knew what that did for how I drove and while I got used to the power I never felt a Prius was gonna leave me behind. I believe this will make a very good reliable car.
__________________
If enough people disagree with me, I know I am doing it right
Reply With Quote
  #83 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2017, 12:24 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville, KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 8,875
Send a message via AIM to blykins
Not Ranked     
Default

Believe it or not, the factory non-adjustable FE rocker arm is one of the very best to use with a hydraulic roller. Most guys don't want to build a $20k engine and put a $300 set of factory rockers on it though....
ACHiPo likes this.
__________________
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
Reply With Quote
  #84 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2017, 02:27 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance, 427 FE
Posts: 89
Not Ranked     
Default

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I have not heard of the factory ones failing. We will be using studs in the head for the rockers as opposed to bolting the rocker shaft to the head since I have read about failures there. Time will be spent on push rod length for sure.
__________________
If enough people disagree with me, I know I am doing it right
Reply With Quote
  #85 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2017, 07:04 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance, 427 FE
Posts: 89
Not Ranked     
Default

A big thanks to Brent today. I asked my builder to talk with him, builder to builder. After the call, we will be ordering some parts from him. He has been so helpful and i just couldn't keep taking free advice. Needed to share the wealth. Cam is dialed in now, so parts and machining are moving.
I do like being able to go into the shop and go over my engine with it laid out in front of me. This is a big plus for a local build. Makes it fun. I feel I would be missing out if I just ordered an engine but that's just me.

Now I can spend time this weekend working on a custom K9 crate for my new truck. So me and the dogs can go to to the track. How's the song go? took my cobra out to the track, hooked to the back of my Super Duty (I don't own a Cadillac)... That's topic is for the Ford Truck Enthusiast forum
__________________
If enough people disagree with me, I know I am doing it right

Last edited by 2bars; 07-28-2017 at 07:10 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #86 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2017, 09:47 PM
Phx Mike's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham 427 s/c with Pond block 482 FE built by Craft Performance Engines
Posts: 432
Not Ranked     
Default

Glad to hear it's coming together. Get that thing built and running so you are ready to take some drives with us this fall when it cools down!
Reply With Quote
  #87 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2017, 09:43 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: St. Louisville, Oh
Cobra Make, Engine: A&C 67 427 cobra SB
Posts: 1,894
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bars View Post
We are studding the head and (your gonna hate this) using reworked and ceramic coated stock rockers. The heads will get some cleaning up, but not going overboard with the polishing.
I'm fine with the factory rockers, but the ceramic coated shocked me. Now this may be common practice, without issues, and I just never heard of it.

I do have industrial experience with coatings. One thing for certain is that coatings can come off. Ceramic tends to hold up well if the base metal that it is on does not flex too much. And too much is not very much. Ceramic is strong, extremely hard, and brittle compared to steel.

Why bother to add ceramic to a rocker that lasted 50 years, without it, given that if the ceramic comes off it will be bad? I could be totally wrong here and may get educated by the answer.
Reply With Quote
  #88 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2017, 11:15 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance, 427 FE
Posts: 89
Not Ranked     
Default

The ceramic is for reducing friction and dissipating heat. The builder uses it a lot in his engine's. Including cylinder head chamber and piston. I will see if I can get a better explanation after I talk with him Monday
__________________
If enough people disagree with me, I know I am doing it right
Reply With Quote
  #89 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2017, 01:33 PM
Phx Mike's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham 427 s/c with Pond block 482 FE built by Craft Performance Engines
Posts: 432
Not Ranked     
Default

I'm not an engine builder but I do have an engineering education and experience. I have never heard of a Ceramic material or coating that helps with heat dissipation. Ceramics can be produced in a wide range of thermal conductivity but are fundamentally insulators (amorphous structure, so generally poor at electrical and thermal conductivity). Most ceramic coatings are used as thermal barriers to protect the underlying material (generally metal) from high temps (i.e. Keep the underlying metal from absorbing heat from the surrounding environment) or to provide corrosion resistance. They are typically applied using plasma spray or electron beam vapor deposition processes. There are some ceramics that have relatively high (for ceramic) thermal conductivity but these coatings do not improve heat dissipation from the underlying metal, they simply hinder it less than other coatings would. They are used where a ceramic coating is needed for other reasons (abrasion or corrosion resistance) and there is need to minimize the negative impact to heat dissipation.

Also, there is not a lot of heat conducted up from the heads and cylinders to the rocker arms. The connection points between the heads and rockers are pretty minimal in surface area (and therefore serve as resistors to thermal conductivity) and the surface area to mass ratio of the rocker assembly is pretty high so any heat that gets conducted to the rockers tends to be radiated away or convectively transferred to the oil pretty quickly. So I don't see how coating the rockers would help dissipate heat from the heads and cylinders but maybe I am missing something!

Ceramics can be used for abrasion or wear resistance and I could see how this might be helpful at the pushrod cups but I have never seen that done before.

Anyway - still look forward to seeing that beast when you get 'er running!
Reply With Quote
  #90 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2017, 01:56 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance, 427 FE
Posts: 89
Not Ranked     
Default

I am getting excited to get this done. I am back to watching cobra videos like when I bought the car in 2004. It spent more time sitting than I would like to admit. I get onto other projects. I spent a couple years doing a frame up on my jeep and the cobra sat with a car cover on it, starting a business, other new cars etc. The incentive came from taking the GT500 to Shelby events. Because nothing is as cool as a Cobra at those, even a fake one ... lol
Lance from Superformance always shows up at the Shelby bash with his cars and even though I am on the track with my GT500 I want to be there with my Cobra.

During on of the driver meetings, Gary Patterson was telling us where we were allowed to pass.
There was a Cobra there that day giving joy rides. Gary says, when you see the Cobra....scratch that ...... when you hear the cobra coming, at any place on the track, let him go by.
Now when you are driving a 550 hp GT 500 on a track, flat out, and a 427 Cobra goes by ... very cool
__________________
If enough people disagree with me, I know I am doing it right
Reply With Quote
  #91 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2017, 02:09 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: St. Louisville, Oh
Cobra Make, Engine: A&C 67 427 cobra SB
Posts: 1,894
Not Ranked     
Default

Ceramic coating piston tops and heads and exhaust ports is more common in diesel engines and high end racing engines. As you describe, a ceramic coating will reduce the amount of combustion heat that conducts into the piston and head. In diesels, they can actually measure improved fuel consumption, and higher exhaust gas temperatures. What is amazing is how thin the coating is and what a difference it makes. Racers report that the coating does not last long, but their application is a violent place to live. Diesel engine guys say it lasts much longer for them, but still not the life of the engine.

As for the rocker arm, the only thing I can think of is to reduce friction. If you want to reduce friction, it sounds like you want a roller rocker, but maybe this is a lower cost way to get part way there. I would think that there would be other ways to accomplish the same thing. At some point you will run into the fact that roller rockers are pretty good at a reasonable price, so what ever you do has to be less expensive or much better, to be worth doing.
Reply With Quote
  #92 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2017, 11:46 AM
cycleguy55's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: White City, SK
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast, 460 CID
Posts: 1,541
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bars View Post
The ceramic is for reducing friction and dissipating heat. The builder uses it a lot in his engine's. Including cylinder head chamber and piston. I will see if I can get a better explanation after I talk with him Monday
I can see ceramic coatings in combustion chambers and the top of pistons, but I'd be concerned that ANY flexing of the rocker arms would reduce the integrity of the coating and result in failure - releasing ceramic particles or flakes into your oiling system.

Personally I wouldn't do it unless I saw a LOT of data to support that use.

YMMV
__________________
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #93 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2017, 12:20 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance, 427 FE
Posts: 89
Not Ranked     
Default

OK, regarding the ceramic coating on the head, rockers, piston and bearings. Here is what I understand. Keep in mind I am relaying the info.
He uses ceramic to direct heat and reduce friction. He tells me there are different types of ceramic coatings and on the rockers it impregnates the metal. He goes on to explain that if the ceramic were to fail, that means the part it is protecting would have failed even sooner.

My builder has been doing competition and unusual engines for 40+ years. He is not using my engine for experimentation, he has done it for 300 mph salt flat cars, road race Viper V10 and lots more, so I guess that's my data. He doesn't do bone stock engines.

I am sorry that is nowhere near enough detail for some. But that's all I got
cdnus and Gaz64 like this.
__________________
If enough people disagree with me, I know I am doing it right

Last edited by 2bars; 08-02-2017 at 01:06 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #94 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2017, 05:47 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance, 427 FE
Posts: 89
Not Ranked     
Default

It is progressing and so far no problems with the block. The lifter guides are being bored now for the rollers, the ceramic coating is done and most all the parts are in. Timing may be just about right with regards to it ready to drive and the outside temp less than 90.
__________________
If enough people disagree with me, I know I am doing it right
Reply With Quote
  #95 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2017, 07:01 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance, 427 FE
Posts: 89
Not Ranked     
Default

Well it seems to be taking forever, but it is progressing (summer monsoon storms disrupted my machinist's home).
The ceramic coating as been done on the combustion chambers, bearings, pistons and valve train.
As other have stated on these blocks additional time was spent cleaning them up. It is all being dry fitted and clearances checked (photos in my album) prior to balance and final assembly.
The excitement builds.
Dimis likes this.
__________________
If enough people disagree with me, I know I am doing it right
Reply With Quote
  #96 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2017, 12:05 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance, 427 FE
Posts: 89
Not Ranked     
Default

It has taken a long time to get here, but my builder called this morning and it has been dynoed and he has been making his adjustments. I am going to see it run on the dyno the first of the week and get a print out. Then box it up and get that sucker in the car!!!!
Over the phone he told me 580 HP / 600 torque. Good thing I stayed with mild cam lol. Good idle, plenty of vacuum for the power brake unit steady pull.
I am back to being fired up.
__________________
If enough people disagree with me, I know I am doing it right
Reply With Quote
  #97 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2017, 12:21 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 99
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bars View Post
It has taken a long time to get here, but my builder called this morning and it has been dynoed and he has been making his adjustments. I am going to see it run on the dyno the first of the week and get a print out. Then box it up and get that sucker in the car!!!!
Over the phone he told me 580 HP / 600 torque. Good thing I stayed with mild cam lol. Good idle, plenty of vacuum for the power brake unit steady pull.
I am back to being fired up.
Nice 👍🏻
Reply With Quote
  #98 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2017, 05:35 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance, 427 FE
Posts: 89
Not Ranked     
Default

Went to the builder today to hear it run on the dyno. Sweeeeeeeeet. the HP was 580 and 665 torque. 400 hp at 1/4 throttle. After it cools, he will package it up and by Friday it will be in the shop with the car. Man what a great day to go play with it on the stand. The old engine retired just about a year ago on the track.
__________________
If enough people disagree with me, I know I am doing it right
Reply With Quote
  #99 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2017, 03:59 AM
Dimis's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne, Vic
Cobra Make, Engine: Some polish thing... With some old engine
Posts: 2,215
Not Ranked     
Default

Great result... That sort of power in a cobra will take a bit of getting use to.
Enjoy!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #100 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2017, 09:56 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance, 427 FE
Posts: 89
Not Ranked     
Default

yup. I was very used to the 400 hp / 500 tq engine that was in it, but a 70% increase is worthy of respect
__________________
If enough people disagree with me, I know I am doing it right
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the clubcobra.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Shelby American, any other replica manufacturer, Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by clubcobra.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Ford Motor Company, or Shelby American or any other manufacturer unless expressly noted by that entity. "Cobra" and the Cobra logo are registered trademarks for Ford Motor Co., Inc. clubcobra.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting clubcobra.com. For full policy documentation refer to the following link: CC Policy