Kirkham Marketing Question. What do you guys really want?

[Three Peaks]

I'm still in the planning/saving stages and haven't ordered a kit yet, but I'm leaning toward FFR because they offer the most options to personalize their package.
Obviously, you have lots of competition these days and some of them are very high quality- and each has their own style of offerings and customer options.
IMHO, if you were to offer a comparable style of package for a competitive price I think you could hit a home run with your quality package. Of course, you could still also offer the other options you already offer, but this frees up capitol from labor to hire people to handle shipping, filling orders, and customer service- which is obviously also very important.
You already have a very important ingredient- customer and brand loyalty. Getting the package to your customer in an affordable fashion will only increase sales and word of mouth, IMHO.
Besides, many guys like me enjoy the build as much as the finished car/driving experience. As long as we don't have to work for NASA to figure it out! - Bob

[Guinness]

I'm very happy with my decision to buy KMP 173 as a painted roller. I didn't have the time available for any other build options. When I retire and find more time to play with cars I'll build another, probably build option #2 or #3 next time. Slabside or FIA for the wife, Coupe, Willys...decisions...decisions. In the meantime I have a '56 Ford Pickup to build with my son.

Jeff

[lineslinger]

David,
When I mentioned the body in stages, what I meant was a body, where purchaser can hang doors, trunk lid, hood, intake scoop and install the hardware required, or request a certain amount of this work already be completed. Most of us know how labor intensive body work is. A lot of guys take great satisfaction in completing the final finish on our cars.
How many guys that would buck-up for a Kirkham are gonna do a lousy job? Purchaser could request a certain level of finish on the skin before taking delivery, I believe you already offer something along these lines as far as final finish.
I will be curious to see you guys develop your experiment and what kind of doors it opens.

Mark

[David Kirkham]

Jeff,

Nice to see you back around. I hope your new ride (desk) doesn't get you down.

Bob,

We are working on the most cost effective thing we can dream up. Some guys want the NASA version! Some guys want to sand all day. Some guys just want to write a check. We will do our best to accomdate everyone.

Mark,

I am not sure how we could offer a package where guys could hand their own hood, trunk, and doors. But I am all ears if you have any ideas.

David

[trularin]

David, you do not have the "Other" vote, how to pay for one of those wonderful cars.

I would build what I currently have, but if I move on, I would vote finished minus engine and trans or completely finished.

Just my $0.02

[Cobra Pack]

David,

For my first car, I absolutely got exactly what I wanted. A completed, assembled roller with a filed finish. I think many of your customers will continue to want the completed cars.

Car #2 will probably be a leafspring street car which I would like to assemble with my son. I don't think I would need a leafspring specific manual, since I have my FIA to base the build off of.

After tinkering with my car, they are definitely not as complicated as I would have guessed.


Mike

[Dangerous Doug]

David,
I think offering your Cobra in a "Phased Kit" would be the best. In other words, a customer buys each phase as they're completing the car. For example:

Phase 1, Body mounted on frame, electircal and hydraulic lines
Phase 2, Front suspension
Phase 3, Rear suspension
Phase 4, Guages and Interior, tire and wheels
Phase 5, Details under the hood

Buy as you go. You want your own guages, skip phase 4, et cetera. The guy that wants to get "in" and start sanding can go for it, while the guy that wants a "complete kit" buys all five phases at one time.

Other than that, I'd go option 1, buy what I needed from Kirkham, then buy whatever else I needed from local sources.

So, option 1 has my vote, as long as the 289FIA is in the crowd .

Yes, I would find myself in the class of Cobra enthusiasts that would find himself in divorce court (my wife's father is an attorney) should I purchase a rolling chassis. I'd like to ease my way in, but I don't want to settle for a "lesser Cobra" by going to the "budget" Cobra manufacturers for their kit (how could I live with myself if I did?)

I'm holding out for the good stuff.
Dangerous Doug

[BLACKJACK]

OKAY, DAVID - - - -

AS LONG AS WE'RE DREAMING HERE - - -

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO OFFER A REPLICA OF THE NORTH AMERICAN P-51D MUSTANG?????

WHY NOT LET YOUR AIRPLANE BUILDERS BUILD AIRPLANES AS WELL??

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY.

BLACKJACK

[CSX 4027]

I believe that many who buy cars as "Customer Build-Ups" and have dreams of doing it themselves are people;

- usually working on budget that inherently flies out the window and ends up taking family money to complete and in many cases causing lot's of family friction. I have friends that got divorced over cars and projects.

-Are first time builders with limited experience.

I feel the most concise way for the average guy to buy one of your cars is to take the plunge on the Turnkey/Roller because he will end up on the road faster as well as potentially spending less. Let's face it, he gonna spend the money anyway. How many of the cheaper kits remain as unbuilt projects because of it costing too much to complete? I am not sure you want a bunch of cars out there that potentially never get built. In my opinion, it's a negative. I think you would rather go to a Cobra show and have the lions share of the parking lot. What better advertisement can you get.

I also feel that a possible bank backed in house financing/leasing program for those with excellent credit would be a great idea that many can live with. We all know the "Home equity deal" but, then you have to involve your spouse and your back to square one.

For those on a budget, skimp on your everyday car and own it outright so you can justify the crazy numbers on the toy.

For those in the "Lucky Sperm Club" or those who timed the Stock Market better than Greenspan, this is moot.

[mannyjoe]

David
From what I have seen of your cars they are beautiful. I am currently building my second FFR , a coupe this time. If it were affordable, and available, I would have considered a Kirkham kit when I purchased my coupe kit.
I also agree with someone else's suggestion of a different numbering sequence or letter on the kits for the benefit of previous and future turnkey minus customers.
mannyjoe

[David Kirkham]

Steve,

Thanks for the comments. We are working hard to make sure the car is not too difficult to get together by first time buyers.

Mannyjoe,

Thank you for your kind words. Curiously, what is your definition of 'affordable?" Suprisingly, I know a few Factory Five customers who have as much or more money in one of their cars as some of our customers do in ours.

David

[mr bruce]

What do we really want to buy? What do you want to sell, and how many? It's obvious that you're in bizz to make money, and keep your crews working ,here, and at the plant in Poland. Get your pricing down close to F5 range, that's where the market is. Or, there are only so many Cobras needed, the market is contracting. Get some streetrod bodys going. There's an untaped market out there. Very few metal body builders that can deliver.

[mannyjoe]

David
When my car is complete I will probably be within 2 or 3k of my 35k budget. Since I was able to purchase a kit from someone who started, but could not complete it, the total cost would have been closer to 40k. I started out with 22k cash in hand from the sale of my FFR roadster and purchased the rest of the drive train, A/C, IRS(Ford SC.), and 13" Cobra brakes a piece at a time.

I think mr bruce has the right idea, with all the crate motors and factory supplied drivetrains available a steel or ... Aluminum Hot Rod body at an affordable price could be a big seller. Especially something that would support a Chevy drivetrain.
mannyjoe

[Mohuska]

David...I have to support Blackjack's comment. there is nothing I would rather have than a P-51D replica. I have owned other planes, but would be first in line for a high quality replica.....

What do you think??

Mike

[DrewFFRCobra]

David,

Interested in taking a FFR in on trade? Seriously, this is a GREAT idea and if you can deliver on it I think you'll have tons of repeat Cobra builders/owners lining up at your door for an aluminum bodied Cobra.

Now, on the options:

#1: This idea is probably only good for guys who want to go vintage racing (does a Kirkham qualify for HSVRA?). If these body/chassis combos fall into the hands of garage builders, they will likely never get completed into an operable car. If they do make it into an operable car, there will be many that were built with inferior parts and you run the serious risk of tarnishing the Kirkham image (all you have to do is look at the poor quality FFRs for evidence). Personally, I'd only sell your body/chassis to original CSX owners (crash repair) or Kirham owners needing repair.

#2: A good idea, but it should be a HUGE difference in price from option #3. Price difference should be in mid to upper 4 figures or even 5 figures cheaper. This is where I spent a TON of time and money on my FFR tracking down proper bolts, fasteners, and fabricating things I didn't like the way that FFR took shortcuts (not that FFRs solution was bad...it just looked cheap). The parts prices combined with time to have them located/sent, price of phone calls, price of postage, etc. makes this a time consuming and ultimately more expensive option.

#3: This is the ticket for many of us. Sell us everything we need and don't send us all over to try and find it or figure out what we need or want on our own. Package everything by the sub-group and /or task and include a name and label on every package. Provide decently detailed instructions and take detailed pictures (you already do from what I've seen on your website) that can be hosted on your website (a build library of sorts). Have most of the major or important holes / attachment points on the chassis predrilled...smaller holes (i.e. riveting panels together, etc.) can be handled by the builder. Only include wheels as an option on this kit (the Cobra will be on jack stands for much of the build, so the customer can delay this purchase until towards the end). Use a high quality zinc primer and automotive chassis paint on the frame (don't powder coat the chassis...it's not original and can't be touched up easily). Do not include sidepipes...customer can purchase later when these parts are needed. Similar to Unique Motorcars, offer custom headers for the different FORD V-8 PUSHROD powerplants that could be used.

#4: You already have this option and know the success you've had with it. Keep it as another option for your customers who do not want or cannot build a Cobra for themselves.

Also, perhaps consider an option that is in-between #3 and #4 where Kirkham installs the suspension and body and hangs the doors, hood and trunk lid. Similar to ERA in that the whole car is not done, but can be rolled around and has a build time of 90 - 120 days for the guy who maybe only has 20 hours or less of spare time per week to build.

Thanks for considering a "build-it-yourself" option. Feel free to email me directly (drewporta@lycos.com) for clarification or to act as a sounding board for ideas...I'm your target market afterall.

[What'saCobra?]

Psst, Mike...

Scaled down replicas tend not to be particularly safe, mostly due to high wing loading, but there are many other issues.

So, though this is over-simplification of a very very complex subject, unless you plan a full scale replica and mega dollars thereby, a cautious soul might consider another nemesis. Consider getting a real one.

Good luck.

(Why not have David help find you a decent MIG-15 or MIG-17 from his friends in Poland? Much cheaper, faster, very impressive and it can function as a runway ice remover and hangar heater in the winter. And just about as dangerous.)

[BLACKJACK]

HEY, WHAT'SA - - - -

1. HAVE YOU SEEN THE PRICES OF "REAL" P-51s ???

2. THERE AIN'T "NUTHIN" LIKE A P-51. I HAVE OVER 23,000 HOURS AND THE 60 OR SO IN THE '51 ARE AMONG THE MOST MEMORABLE.

3. I PRESENTLY OWN AN "ORIGINAL" P-39 BELL AIRCOBRA AND I'D SWAP IT, TWO COBRAS AND THE GT-40 FOR A NICE (FULL SIZE) P-51 REPLICA.

4. I DEFINATELY AGREE WITH YOU ON THE "MINIATURES" - -AND WING LOADING IS ONLY PART OF THE PROBLEMS.

5. I'VE FLOWN THE MIG-15 - ABOUT 25 HOURS - I'LL TAKE A P-51 ANY DAY, THANK YOU.

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY.

BLACKJACK-21, OUT

[What'saCobra?]

Dear Jack,

Impressive.

We agree.

And to think, i thought it too much to purchase a NEW Cavalier (fresh OH of a 2 place Mustang, transport heads and fresh prop) from down here in Tampa some years ago. They were asking over $25K for Pete's sake!

No way, Jose. Big rip-off, says i.

Wrong.

My error.

Should'a, could'a, would'a...

i did get a few COBs though.

We might have a mutual acquaintance in Mr. Baker, New Smyrna Beach?

As i recently read:

AUDENTES FORTUNA JUVAT

[BLACKJACK]

OH, YES - - -

I REMEMBER THE CAVALIERS WELL. NICE TWO SEATERS WITH CARPET LINED GUN BAYS IN THE WINGS - GREAT FOR CARRYING GOLF CLUBS ETC.)

I PICKED ONE UP AND DELIVERED IT TO A DOCTOR IN PITTSBURGH. THE INVOICE PRICE ON IT WAS $17,200.00 I THOUGHT THAT WAS RATHER OUTRAGEOUS - IN AS MUCH AS ONE COULD PURCHASE A "RAW" F-51D FOR ABOUT $3500.00. OF COURSE THE "CAVS" HAD NEARLY EVERYTHING EITHER OVERHAULED OR NEW - - WITH MODERN (AT THAT TIME) ELECTRONICS.

OF COURSE - I'M THE SAME "IDIOT" THAT COULD HAVE PURCHASED AN ORIGINAL 427 COBRA OFF THE SHOW ROOM FLOOR IN FALLS CHURCH, VA FOR $7800.00. MY EX-WIFE TALKED (B1TCHED) ME OUT OF IT. ANY WONDER WHY SHE'S MY EX-WIFE???

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY.

BLACKJACK

[niles]

David;
You might talk to Chuck; he has built a Hunter and a Kirkham in the last 3 yrs. Send me PE and send you his home phone
gn