The Fence

[Roscoe]

It's an easy climb unless you hook up the 440.

Roscoe

[Venamm]

Mike,
How do you assume what I am aware of, and also what do you know about "my borders" I have you know you might have the largest AMOUNT OF Mexican walking across, but we have the largest amount of drugs and guns not to mention terrorists! Want to trade Mr. "I take offense to that" Get off your stars and stripes attitude and look beyond the problem and beyond the "lower 48" Also, do not hate the people who are trying to make it over, hate the people who are over baiting their hooks.

Scott,
You must be related to Mike, what education do you have about Canadian forestry? Simply the USA has run out and either they purchased from Canada or China. we are your neighbor to the north, we do not have a war with you. NAFTA screwed us just as bad if not more, and I do not hear any Canadian crying of lost potatoes hydro electricity. So get over it.

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by Venamm

Scott,
You must be related to Mike, what education do you have about Canadian forestry? Simply the USA has run out and either they purchased from Canada or China. we are your neighbor to the north, we do not have a war with you. NAFTA screwed us just as bad if not more, and I do not hear any Canadian crying of lost potatoes hydro electricity. So get over it.

Nope not related to Mike but we do share a common country...

I have been in forestry over 30 years, have visited your country and buy quite a lot of heavy forestry equipment from Canada too.

CANADA IS JEOPARDIZING THE SOFTWOOD LUMBER
AGREEMENT BY FAILING TO ADHERE TO ITS TERMS

For the Softwood Lumber Agreement (SLA) to be a lasting alternative to trade
litigation, the parties must ensure full compliance. Unfortunately, the Canadian
government presently is not doing so and is thereby putting the agreement at risk. It
is extremely disappointing that the list of violations is extensive a few months after
the two trading partners entered into to this seven-to-nine year agreement.
Canadian government data indicate that through May 2007 Canada’s under-collection
of required export taxes totals at least US$116 million and provinces’ over-quota
shipments total at least 522 million board feet. As the required tax and quota limits
on shipments are minimally necessary to address Canada’s unfair trade practices, its
SLA violations severely harm the U.S. lumber industry.

• Canada Is Not Collecting Required Surge Mechanism Export Taxes:
Canada is violating SLA surge mechanism requirements. The surge mechanism
requires Canada to impose additional export taxes if British Columbia’s or
Alberta’s exports to the United States exceed 111% of its allocated U.S. market
share in any period. Canada is calculating erroneously high share levels, and as
a result has through June foregone an estimated US$85 million in required export
taxes.

• Canada Is Permitting Shipments Beyond Agreed Quota Levels: As with
the surge limits described above, quotas applicable to Ontario and Quebec
exports are based on allocated shares of the U.S. lumber market. Since Canada
is, as with the surge limits, overstating allocated shares, it is permitting exports
over permitted quota levels. Through June, Quebec and Ontario had exported an
estimated 522 million board feet over their quotas.

• Canada Is Under-Collecting Primary Export Taxes: Canadian government
data indicate that Canada has not been collecting the full 15% primary export tax
on BC and Alberta shipments to the United States or the full 5% tax on Quebec
and Ontario shipments. The Canadian data, on their face, represent a Canadian
government acknowledgement that it collected only around 89% of required
primary tax proceeds and failed to collect approximately US$31 million in
required primary taxes from the time the agreement came into force in October
2006 through April 2007 (the latest month for which data are available).

• Provinces Are Providing Forbidden New Subsidies: Canadian provinces
have announced and begun disbursing new subsidies to lumber producers that
are forbidden under the agreement. Quebec is implementing a plan to provide
hundreds of millions of dollars in grants, subsidized loans and other subsides for,
among other purposes, “business modernization.” Ontario is doing the same.
The SLA expressly forbids these types of new subsidies. They exacerbate and
prolong current, ruinous lumber market conditions by sustaining large segments
of uneconomical Canadian lumber production.
The provinces are making it clear that they will preserve sawmills that would
close in a market system. In May, the largest Canadian lumber producer, Canfor,
announced that it is closing its Mackenzie, British Columbia “super mill.” British
Columbia authorities have announced a plan to reduce Canfor’s costs on the basis
of which the mill will remain open. Alone, the Mackenzie sawmill accounts for
around 2.5% of Canadian softwood lumber shipments to the United States -- an
enormous factor in a commodity market like lumber.

Read more here...

http://www.slma.org/pdf/USTR_canadianarbitration.pdf

Hardly a good neighbor on this issue.

What would you like me to get over?

Scott S

[bomelia]

There is a nice book out there: "How to win friends and influence people". Now, I'm not going to suggest that you read it. But one point I will make is that you are not taking enough time to get to know folks before you "spout off". Ask yourself this. Would you talk to me like this in person? Or Scott? I know for a fact I would say all I have said to you in person, but then, I am among friends (and foes) who know me. It is very much a contectual thing. Don't take things so personal. A lot of folks are just testing you (perhaps me included) to see how thick your skin is.

So far, it looks pretty dam thin. Canadien thin.

Mike

PS: My ass looks real good, huh?

[427 S/O]

Lumber yards, pulp wooders, wholesalers and retailers are all hurting, housing starts have plummeted and that's their bread and butter. From what I've seen and read, I wouldn't expect good news for a long while....

[trularin]

As I understand it and I hope I am not saying what some else has already stated, we are in a 8 - 15 year cycle. According to some people, we will continue to degrade in economy until 2010 or 2012. Then there will be an upturn.

[Venamm]

Buy American lumber???...again you don't have any left. You are reading into a mislead propaganda piece written by who?...you got it!

I could easily send you links how we've been raped and pillaged over and over in the Auto MFG sector and lets not even talk farm produce. So stop it.

By the way I must point out that I lived in Washington DC for 15 years, and I know how the wheel spins (I am a dual citizen) I also know that it's very American to blame (by nature not nurture) a country and not their own government. After all that is how wars start. Look with in before fingers are pointed. History has taught us that.

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by Venamm

Buy American lumber???...again you don't have any left.

Our mills are chock full, come on down and buy some.



I am thinking about getting the wife something very shiny for Christmas, it sure as heck won't come from a Canadian mine.

Now for a bit of extra reading, why don't you look again at my sig line and tell me how it is an attack on Canada?

My company contracts for the 4th largest timberland owner in the US and a Canadian company

My anger is directed at NAFTA

Scott S

[Venamm]

My friend,
Canadian mines also feed your parts. So unless you can track that shiny whatever you intend to buy, it will no doubt come from Canada or Africa. Welcome to the world outside of Dixie. NAFTA was a American thought that was sold to us and forced upon Mexico (actually Mexico is better off with it as they had nothing to lose)

[Scott S]

I was kinda thinking the same thing Mike, a tone was set and hardly from the south.

Scott S

[Wayne Maybury]

Mike, Scott

I know your comments were not directed at me. As a matter of fact no one seems to have taken exception to what I wrote yesterday.

Scott, what you presented is the opinion of one side of this disagreement. I can assure you that the Canadian forestry sector is just as vocal about all of the wrong doings being blamed on the Americans. The real truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

I cross the Canada / US border every weekend from early April until mid or late October and I see truckload after truckload after truckload of "round wood" heading north into Canada. This has been going on for years so we certainly do import a very large amount of un-processed wood from the US.

As I said earlier, Canada and the US have in excess of $400 billion per year of two way trade. Certainly, there are going to be disputes when there is this much business happening.

Venamm, You can say whatever you want but as a new comer to this site, I would hope that you tone down your rhetoric somewhat before my attorney friend in Northern California gets involved. (Jamo, how am I doing?)

Wayne

[Venamm]

I'm confused. I send a link out here for education purposes and label it "a whole other perspective" and I get called Ali kinds of things "offensive" Thin Skinned Canadian" and more...and I need to tone down. I did not come on here to fight only to learn more about cars. My sign off isn't a political statement Scott's is "Now one third of all lumber products come from Canada, scr*w you very much NAFTA " take it to another forum on the net not in the Cobra Club. I feel certain people do have a lot of built up angst and tend to vent on all tiffy issues they have at anyone at anyplace. I was simply sticking up for my Country and now they have insulted me. The link about the fence was made by Americans so how is that insulting? Always fast to accuse but never at fault. I stand by what I say.
As for Mike who is following my threads commenting negatively about everything I say is borderline harassment. He obviously has to much time on his hands. I have made few friends on this site and one of them are beligerante racist or country bashing as the few I have met recently. Again if you condone that sort of play why not start your own forum on another site.

[Wayne Maybury]

Venamm
Hey, I have stuck up for Canada as much as anyone on this site and have taken some good natured ribbing as well as some other comments that were not as polite, on occasion.

I never said that you were right, wrong or in between. All I said was that as a new comer, maybe you should tune down the rhetoric some what. I'm a Canadian and I found your comments to have a bit of an "edge" to them, I can just imagine how our friends south of the border view them.

By the way, the Johnex body is definitely a fine body for a Cobra project.

Wasn't this thread about a fence along the southern US border any way?

Wayne

[VRM]

Mike,
You laid into him pretty hard just for posting a different viewpoint. Your comments were personal, and directed against him. His video was not personally directed against you. That makes you look like the one with the thin skin, as you fired the first shot.

Mike and Venamm,
Everyone tends to think that their country is better than everyone elses, so 'nationalist' is probably a more accurate term than 'racist'. Unfortunately, that also tends to make people bury their heads in the sand about the problems that their country has. The US is a great country, but we have created a lot of our own problems. We are not going not be able to fix them unless we acknowledge that they are our problems.

I don't know anything about the lumber trade other than I like how wood sounds. I do know that it is good for the US to be prosperous, and I also know that it is beneficial to the US for our neighbours to be prosperous. We do have a great deal of trade with Canada - and both countries have done well as a result. We also don't have millions of Canadians running to the border looking for jobs so Canada is doing something right.

I like the Bracero program that Roscoe posted info about. I am also in favour of harsher penalties for companies that hire illegals - after all - they are the ones benefitting from the cheap labour. We also need to control our borders. It would also be beneficial to us for Mexico to become more prosperous. Obviously, we cannot do that for them, but there might be ways that we can help them do that for themselves.

Venamm,
Relax. People in the lounge can be very passionate about their politics. The lounge usually has very little to do with cars. All of us are always right, and that can make for some very heated arguments. I've never met any of the CCers in person, but the ones I've had the most heated arguments with are the ones I am the most curious about.

Steve

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by Venamm

. My sign off isn't a political statement Scott's is "Now one third of all lumber products come from Canada, scr*w you very much NAFTA " take it to another forum on the net not in the Cobra Club.

Sorry Buddy it's not going away, it's been there for years and you are the first to take real issue with it.

Thanks Wayne for your comments, do you have any Lowes or Home Depot up there? There are one of each here nearby my home and nearly all the softwood lumber is from Canadian mills even though there are six local mills within 25 miles.

Just gotta wonder if somebody is not playing fair...

Scott S

BTW my little logging company shipped over 80 truck loads (320,000 board feet) of logs this week, 5 of those were exported to the far east, none to Canada.

[Wayne Maybury]

Originally Posted by Scott S

Thanks Wayne for your comments, do you have any Lowes or Home Depot up there? There are one of each here nearby my home and nearly all the softwood lumber is from Canadian mills even though there are six local mills within 25 miles.

Just gotta wonder if somebody is not playing fair...

Scott

The company I work for does supply lumber to Home Depot. One of the reasons that they buy from us is that we have FSC certification. Maybe your local mills don't.

Wayne

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by Wayne Maybury

Scott

The company I work for does supply lumber to Home Depot. One of the reasons that they buy from us is that we have FSC certification. Maybe your local mills don't.

Wayne

Yes all the local mills here are certified, there is a pretty accurate tracking procedure from the stump to the retailer.

My company is certified also.

Scott S

[imagine2frolic]

I am still for plugging the fence into solar panels, and wind mills to shock our southern neighbors in more than one way. I love using renewable energy. I have to, at times I live off of it for months......

[VRM]

BTW,
Does anybody know why the fence has those two inch holes in it? You could use ice picks or some such thing to make the climb much easier. I would think that a solid slab, maybe even leaning towards Mexico, would make for a much tougher climb.

Steve

[Wayne Maybury]

Originally Posted by VRM

BTW,
Does anybody know why the fence has those two inch holes in it?

Steve

Maybe it is so that the guys in uniform on the north side of the fence can shoot pepper spray at the guys trying to climb up the other side of it.

Wayne