Pro vs Con Re: CSX and Superformance/ERA

[Silversmith]

After 1966?? Original 3000 series CSX's were produced until early 1968!! The 1966 date in the previous posting must have been a typo IMHO post 3000 CSX series AC Cobra replica's fall into the following order. for Alum. body AC's #1 would be KMC. #2 would be Present day CSX's. For Glass AC's #1 would be ERA. #2 would be KMC & #3 would be CSX, then the rest in one's personal pref. order. For the overall cost & exacting standards. A factory built ERA is truly one awsome ride! I am however, slighty biased.

[Slither]

They are all pretty awesome cars!

[madmaxx]

I have owned a bdr and a SPF, driven 3 other make. SPF is 10k more than bdr and worth 10k more. On the flip side bdr is worth every penny they sale for. I won't own another small block unless I am flipping the car. My next, if it is for me will be a kirkham, but if I could find a big block era for a great price I would save the 35k? And get it for a couple years. The item I loathe about any cobra is the painfully soft easy to chip paint, that is out of the equation with a kirkham. My only concern with a kirkham is I don't want it to raw.

[AL427SBF]

best ambassador to buy anything but a CSX is patrickt

[Slither]

Well patrickt, I must have one of those rare top of the line type kirkham or era replicas. My aluminum car, CSX4266, was built by the Kirkhams at their shop in Provo, Utah and sold as a complete roller to SAI. So therefore by you, would make it a top of the line SHELBY COBRA. The quality in this car is Kirkham quality. That is the way it was back in the late 2001's. If it wasn't for ol' Carroll Shelby doing what he did back in the day, we wouldn't even have this forum today. Why do you hate the man but love his product by owning a replica of it?
I do agree with you that SAI is not what it used to be. Personally, I think they should have ceased construction of the Cobra at the time of his death. SAI doesn't seem to care about the Cobra owner any longer. They are so involved with converting Mustangs to huge HP powerhouses that the Cobra is pushed in to a corner now. Of course, this is only my opinion and everybody else has theirs. Sorry if we don't agree.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Slither

Well patrickt, I must have one of those rare top of the line type kirkham or era replicas. My aluminum car, CSX4266, was built by the Kirkhams at their shop in Provo, Utah and sold as a complete roller to SAI. So therefore by you, would make it a top of the line SHELBY COBRA. The quality in this car is Kirkham quality. That is the way it was back in the late 2001's. If it wasn't for ol' Carroll Shelby doing what he did back in the day, we wouldn't even have this forum today. Why do you hate the man but love his product by owning a replica of it?
I do agree with you that SAI is not what it used to be. Personally, I think they should have ceased construction of the Cobra at the time of his death. SAI doesn't seem to care about the Cobra owner any longer. They are so involved with converting Mustangs to huge HP powerhouses that the Cobra is pushed in to a corner now. Of course, this is only my opinion and everybody else has theirs. Sorry if we don't agree.

You have a fine car. And I have the highest respect for Mr. Shelby. But today, a glass Shelby is not worth a penny more than any other glass replica of similar quality.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Slither

My aluminum car, CSX4266, was built by the Kirkhams at their shop in Provo, Utah and sold as a complete roller to SAI.

Do you have the entire Kirkham billet aluminum suspension, brakes and rear end, the CSX suspension or the original type suspension that costs an extra $16,000 from Kirkham?

As for the Ferrari comparison, there have been some model changes between the 1962 Ferrari 250 and the current 2013 Ferrari 458 Italia just to pick one of their current offerings. And the same argument can be made for Mr. Ferdinand Porsche. These are car companies that have continually produced and modernized their cars since their inception. The Cobra not so much.

[1ntCobra]

SAI buys ONLY the aluminum body and frames from Kirkham (and the frame is apparently slightly different than the standard Kirkham frame in that the motor mounts are are not in the standard position). SAI does NOT buy complete rollers from Kirkham.

When you are buying an aluminum body CSX continuation car from SAI, you are buying a car with a lot of the work done in Vegas.

Originally Posted by Slither

Well patrickt, I must have one of those rare top of the line type kirkham or era replicas. My aluminum car, CSX4266, was built by the Kirkhams at their shop in Provo, Utah and sold as a complete roller to SAI. So therefore by you, would make it a top of the line SHELBY COBRA. The quality in this car is Kirkham quality. That is the way it was back in the late 2001's. If it wasn't for ol' Carroll Shelby doing what he did back in the day, we wouldn't even have this forum today. Why do you hate the man but love his product by owning a replica of it?
I do agree with you that SAI is not what it used to be. Personally, I think they should have ceased construction of the Cobra at the time of his death. SAI doesn't seem to care about the Cobra owner any longer. They are so involved with converting Mustangs to huge HP powerhouses that the Cobra is pushed in to a corner now. Of course, this is only my opinion and everybody else has theirs. Sorry if we don't agree.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

SAI buys ONLY the aluminum body and frames from Kirkham (and the frame is apparently slightly different than the standard Kirkham frame in that the motor mounts are are not in the standard position). SAI does NOT buy complete rollers from Kirkham.

When you are buying an aluminum body CSX continuation car from SAI, you are buying a car with a lot of the work done in Vegas.

Much hustling done in Vegas?

[Slither]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

SAI buys ONLY the aluminum body and frames from Kirkham (and the frame is apparently slightly different than the standard Kirkham frame in that the motor mounts are are not in the standard position). SAI does NOT buy complete rollers from Kirkham.

When you are buying an aluminum body CSX continuation car from SAI, you are buying a car with a lot of the work done in Vegas.

1ntCobra, you are wrong about SAI buying only the aluminum body and frame from Kirkham. Tom Kirkham told me the CSX4266 was their very first powder coated chassis. It was delivered to SAI as a roller!
RodKnock, to answer your question about the billet suspension is NO. When I ordered the car in late 2001, Kirkham had not developed and released their billet suspension. For me, I wanted the closest think to a real Shelby Cobra so I opted for the aluminum bodied car. So a year after owning the car, I added stack fuel injection and blew my own theory. I can say that I own a real Shelby Cobra, not a car that looks like one. That is just the way it is. Replica or not, these cars are owned by passionate owners. There is nothing wrong with owning a replica, a kit car or what ever you want to call it. It is just a matter of personal preference. Heck, what fun would it be if they all looked alike?

[1ntCobra]

Go to page 848 of the current SAAC registry (4th edition), look at the picture in the bottom left hand corner and read its caption. Also see the picture and caption on the top left hand corner of page 849.

Then when you have some more time, check out this thread: Aluminum Body

When you get to this point in the thread, Aluminum Body, you will see pictures taken by me and someone else in Vegas that show both Kirkham sourced bodies and frames as well as bodies and frames sourced from England, none of which are rollers.

This all seems to back up my point.

Perhaps CSX4266 was special and delivered to SAI as a roller from Kirkham. If that is the case, you should get your registry entry updated to reflect its special history.

Originally Posted by Slither

1ntCobra, you are wrong about SAI buying only the aluminum body and frame from Kirkham. Tom Kirkham told me the CSX4266 was their very first powder coated chassis. It was delivered to SAI as a roller!
RodKnock, to answer your question about the billet suspension is NO. When I ordered the car in late 2001, Kirkham had not developed and released their billet suspension. For me, I wanted the closest think to a real Shelby Cobra so I opted for the aluminum bodied car. So a year after owning the car, I added stack fuel injection and blew my own theory. I can say that I own a real Shelby Cobra, not a car that looks like one. That is just the way it is. Replica or not, these cars are owned by passionate owners. There is nothing wrong with owning a replica, a kit car or what ever you want to call it. It is just a matter of personal preference. Heck, what fun would it be if they all looked alike?

[CSX4815]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Go to page 848 of the current SAAC registry (4th edition), look at the picture in the bottom left hand corner and read its caption. Also see the picture and caption on the top left hand corner of page 849.

Then when you have some more time, check out this thread: Aluminum Body

When you get to this point in the thread, Aluminum Body, you will see pictures taken by me and someone else in Vegas that show both Kirkham sourced bodies and frames as well as bodies and frames sourced from England, none of which are rollers.

This all seems to back up my point.

Perhaps CSX4266 was special and delivered to SAI as a roller from Kirkham. If that is the case, you should get your registry entry updated to reflect its special history.

Who cares what the registry says... It's Bills car! You guys have way too much time on your hands...

Oy Vey is right!

[Slither]

1ntCobra, it seems to me that the aluminum bodied cars from Kirkham all come on a chassis, although I know you can purchase an aluminum body with door, hood and trunk lid separately from Kirkham. All I'm say'in is that SAI, Kirkham and my dealer all told me it was the first powder coated chassis from Kirkham and it was delivered as a roller. Perhaps the term "roller" varies from business to business. Maybe I do have a special car. Good point! It is what it is! What is your beef anyway?

P.S. I took your advice and checked the registry. All the cars do seem to be on a chassis, don't they? I believe the photos you may have taken were possibly 1000 series cars which were produced after my car was built.

[frdfver]

Chipping of the paint I believe would be how the car was prepared and the thickness of the paint. An aluminum body still dents and stretches, then must be metal finished which takes considerable skill and or cost…I personally would still paint an aluminum body. Aluminum also corrodes and then there is the problem of dissimilar metal corrosion.

[Tutosnake]

I bought a CSX because i can always show that CSX number. I could care less if it was more or less quality. I bought a CSX because it carried Shelby's name, dead or alive. I bought a CSX because another replica was farther out from the original thing. i bought a CSX because the same money for a Ferrari would have gotten me a post-Enzo run of the mill car that will never be collectible (sans the low run uber-ferraris of our modern times). I bought a CSX because to my eye, it offers the BEST body line. I bought a CSX because otherwise $60,000 for a non Shelby replica is REALLY wasted money... All non CSX cars should be worth $40K tops... it's a cheap car to make, it is so elemental that to pay more that $40K for it is nuts, UNLESS it is a SHELBY Cobra. Like or not, Shelby (or some dudes) went back into the replica business and produced THE car with the proper lineage, replica or not. I bought a CSX because of the history of Shelby's. Like it or not, if your car is not a CSX, it does not carry the Shelby mystique, o heritage. Is it better that the other ones? Well, let me just mention that every single local guy (mechanic, body work, painter, racer) that has come in close contact with my car has said the same thing (to my delight): "this is the best replica I have ever seen... it is made so much better than the rest..." Is this true? I do not have the experience and knowledge to bottom line it, but these guys seem to see the difference.
If I wanted to invest my money wisely (on a car), no Shelby car (except the 289 Coupe, and roadsters that won the "65 Championship), CSX or Mustang would be in my top 10 list. Are you kidding me? That list comprises a group of Ferraris and Bugattis, with a handful of Alfas and Mercs, and only the Daytona Coupe finishing up the list. Who would in their right mind buy an original CSX roadster for more than $150,000 ? Only people with more money that sense. It is one of the simplest, simplistic, and rudimentary cars ever built. It was fast, nothing else. It was left in dirty corners for long years, disregarded as trash. One day someone said "i want to restore that car" and spent $200K doing it, and "Voila!" a new object of appreciation was born. It has been SOOOO imitated, that you cannot tell the difference between those originals and so many others running up and down our streets!!
I paid what I paid for my CSX car because it is what i thought any non-competition CSX car is worth... tops. Since that is not what the market thinks, and I cannot afford an original car,. I went for a 6000 car. Now that the "roller" price went up, I think the next buyer should look into an original XKE, Alfa, Lancia, Corvette, or Porsche (for investment purposes).
Like it or not, ERA, Kirkham, SPF, etc. are not Shelby Cobras. It does not mean they are not better products, but they will never be a Shelby. Sometimes, the name of a brand has all the power to it. Ask Coca-Cola....
As it is I celebrate ANY good looking Cobra here, and out there. It is a great hobby, and an awesome car to work with. It allows any of us to be driver and mechanic at the same time. It is timeless, and beautiful. We should all enjoy it in its many forms, but please stop trying to make me feel guilty about having spent more money for my CSX version... it is what it is!

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by Tutosnake

Like it or not, ERA, Kirkham, SPF, etc. are not Shelby Cobras. It does not mean they are not better products, but they will never be a Shelby. Sometimes, the name of a brand has all the power to it.

While the Kirkham isn't a Shelby Cobra, the Cobra registry accepts it as one of their own. Very confusing world.

Oh, and for a few bucks per car, Carroll Shelby licensed the SPF as one his bastard children.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Tutosnake

I bought a CSX because i can always show that CSX number. I could care less if it was more or less quality. I bought a CSX because it carried Shelby's name, dead or alive. I bought a CSX because another replica was farther out from the original thing. i bought a CSX because the same money for a Ferrari would have gotten me a post-Enzo run of the mill car that will never be collectible (sans the low run uber-ferraris of our modern times). I bought a CSX because to my eye, it offers the BEST body line. I bought a CSX because otherwise $60,000 for a non Shelby replica is REALLY wasted money... All non CSX cars should be worth $40K tops... it's a cheap car to make, it is so elemental that to pay more that $40K for it is nuts, UNLESS it is a SHELBY Cobra. Like or not, Shelby (or some dudes) went back into the replica business and produced THE car with the proper lineage, replica or not. I bought a CSX because of the history of Shelby's. Like it or not, if your car is not a CSX, it does not carry the Shelby mystique, o heritage. Is it better that the other ones? Well, let me just mention that every single local guy (mechanic, body work, painter, racer) that has come in close contact with my car has said the same thing (to my delight): "this is the best replica I have ever seen... it is made so much better than the rest..." Is this true? I do not have the experience and knowledge to bottom line it, but these guys seem to see the difference.
If I wanted to invest my money wisely (on a car), no Shelby car (except the 289 Coupe, and roadsters that won the "65 Championship), CSX or Mustang would be in my top 10 list. Are you kidding me? That list comprises a group of Ferraris and Bugattis, with a handful of Alfas and Mercs, and only the Daytona Coupe finishing up the list. Who would in their right mind buy an original CSX roadster for more than $150,000 ? Only people with more money that sense. It is one of the simplest, simplistic, and rudimentary cars ever built. It was fast, nothing else. It was left in dirty corners for long years, disregarded as trash. One day someone said "i want to restore that car" and spent $200K doing it, and "Voila!" a new object of appreciation was born. It has been SOOOO imitated, that you cannot tell the difference between those originals and so many others running up and down our streets!!
I paid what I paid for my CSX car because it is what i thought any non-competition CSX car is worth... tops. Since that is not what the market thinks, and I cannot afford an original car,. I went for a 6000 car. Now that the "roller" price went up, I think the next buyer should look into an original XKE, Alfa, Lancia, Corvette, or Porsche (for investment purposes).
Like it or not, ERA, Kirkham, SPF, etc. are not Shelby Cobras. It does not mean they are not better products, but they will never be a Shelby. Sometimes, the name of a brand has all the power to it. Ask Coca-Cola....
As it is I celebrate ANY good looking Cobra here, and out there. It is a great hobby, and an awesome car to work with. It allows any of us to be driver and mechanic at the same time. It is timeless, and beautiful. We should all enjoy it in its many forms, but please stop trying to make me feel guilty about having spent more money for my CSX version... it is what it is!

Wowzer. I can't believe I wasted all that money on a non-Shelby replica that I don't drive.

All I can say is OY VEY!

[Tutosnake]

You should drive more often then!

[fordracing65]

DAMN, I just ran out of POPCORN and BEER, please don't continue till I return from the store, I'll let you all know when that is...

[Tutosnake]

Agreed. It is just that CSX6000 cars seem to be lesser children on SAAC, and bastard children on CC... makes me think sometimes Continuation owners need their own forum...