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 1Likes
03-17-2009, 11:15 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Santa Cruz,
ca
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby CSX4788 with a Dawkins performance 490 ci iron genesis block hydrualic roller
Posts: 246
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Not Ranked
4000 series hub / upright / spidle options
I just want to start this post off by saying that it is in no way meant to be a bash on SAI. I have gotten fantastic (beyond expectations) customer service and support from the new SAI. Now for the problem.
My car has about 400 miles on it and the upright / spindle is coming apart. The fasteners (which are behind the rotor and can therefore only be adjusted by taking the rotor off) are backing out (not just loose). Unfortunately, the only way to get the rotor off is to take the whole assembly off and press it off (per SAI). Not only is this going to be kind of expensive to do, but if I need to do a brake job in the future and replace or cut the rotor, I will have to do it again. The options that I see are:
1) suck it up and live with it
2) hope that SAI may come up with a solution before I have to do a brake job or deal with this again
3) replace the entire front suspension with one from another vendor like Kirkham
4) park it and hope for a better solution (or save some money to deal with it) in the future since I lost my job a month and a half ago - which is what I am planning on doing for now.
I can not believe that I am the first one who has ever had to deal with this problem so I am hoping there is another solutuion that I am unaware of. All input is welcome. Thanks.
John(;-)
__________________
Racing, bull fighting and mountain climbing are the only true sports, everything else is just a game. - Hemmingway
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03-17-2009, 11:49 AM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelby racer
My car has about 400 miles on it and the upright / spindle is coming apart. The fasteners (which are behind the rotor and can therefore only be adjusted by taking the rotor off) are backing out (not just loose).
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Can you post a pic of your front spindle showing the fasteners? These are pin drive hubs, correct? |
03-17-2009, 12:07 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary, FE, Tremec TKO 600
Posts: 1,987
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Not Ranked
You can't just remove the caliper and take off the rotor and hub as an assembly?
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03-17-2009, 12:13 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by 767Jockey
You can't just remove the caliper and take off the rotor and hub as an assembly?
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With only 400 miles on it I was thinking remove the entire spindle from the control arms and ship it all back (spindle, rotor, hat, hub, and caliper) to SAI and have them return it back good as new on their nickel. But I'd like to see a pic of it first. |
03-17-2009, 12:38 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary, FE, Tremec TKO 600
Posts: 1,987
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt
With only 400 miles on it I was thinking remove the entire spindle from the control arms and ship it all back (spindle, rotor, hat, hub, and caliper) to SAI and have them return it back good as new on their nickel. But I'd like to see a pic of it first.
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That works, too!  |
03-17-2009, 12:46 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Santa Cruz,
ca
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby CSX4788 with a Dawkins performance 490 ci iron genesis block hydrualic roller
Posts: 246
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Not Ranked
it gets better
I just talked to a local shop that works on the first road going 4000 series (built in Las Vegas - unlike the 4700 series that was built else where). The original 4000 series is like a normal car. You remove the caliper and the rotor slips off the hub. My hub has the bolt on the back side and the rotor is pressed on to the hub. I have no idea why it was designed this way, but in my uneducated mind it seems like a step back ward. I will attempt to attatch an image and we can go from there. you can just see the bolts behind the rotor and you have to remove the entire assembly and press it off the up right.
__________________
Racing, bull fighting and mountain climbing are the only true sports, everything else is just a game. - Hemmingway
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03-17-2009, 12:52 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
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Not Ranked
Ahh, I see. And presumably right below the line of sight on the rotor are fastemers going in to the block of aluminum that is bolted to the spindle. And the rotor is press-fitted on to the spindle using a billion pounds of force no doubt. Right?
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03-17-2009, 12:59 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary, FE, Tremec TKO 600
Posts: 1,987
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelby racer
I just talked to a local shop that works on the first road going 4000 series (built in Las Vegas - unlike the 4700 series that was built else where). The original 4000 series is like a normal car. You remove the caliper and the rotor slips off the hub. My hub has the bolt on the back side and the rotor is pressed on to the hub. I have no idea why it was designed this way, but in my uneducated mind it seems like a step back ward. I will attempt to attatch an image and we can go from there. you can just see the bolts behind the rotor and you have to remove the entire assembly and press it off the up right.
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The rotor and hub assembly is press fit onto the spindle? Again, I am no CSX guru by any means, but I have never heard of such an arrangement. It seems like a solution to a problem that no one has identified yet. Obviously, I am missing something here...is this car still under warranty? Tell them to recommend a shop by you and let them foot the bill if it's under warranty, why mess with it?
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03-18-2009, 10:15 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 539, a Ton of Aluminum
Posts: 9,592
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Not Ranked
There has to be some product liability involved here beyond the warranty period. I would be very upset and you might consider consulting with an attorney.
I'm not a mechanical expert like Rick or Patrick, so there may be some simple and easy fix. I dunno. However, as a consumer who has spent a load of money on a product that may have been built with a dangerous design flaw and then have the manufacturer claim that there's no possibility for repair? Huh?
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03-18-2009, 10:18 AM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock
There has to be some product liability involved here beyond the warranty period. I would be very upset and you might consider consulting with an attorney...
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I think Jamo's the smartest lawyer on this forum.  |
03-18-2009, 06:42 PM
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Senior CC Premier Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt
I think Jamo's the smartest lawyer on this forum. |
I believe that JAMO would agree......
Document, document, document!
You and SAI may all have the best intentions, but as the saying goes:
"If it's not in writing, it didn't happen".
As much as you want to, changing running gear to another manufacturer without giving the original guys a chance to make it right, (in writing!!) will not fair well if things get bad. Either side can say that their parts are not approved and/or tested with the other product. Sorry, just the way of the world. A can of worms to be sure.
My 2 cents.
No, I am not a lawyer.
__________________
All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
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03-18-2009, 08:17 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hillsboro,
OR
Cobra Make, Engine: Scratch built CSX style frame, Carbon fiber body, 393 Stroker, T-bird IRS, T5
Posts: 1,623
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernica
I believe that JAMO would agree......
Document, document, document!
You and SAI may all have the best intentions, but as the saying goes:
"If it's not in writing, it didn't happen".
As much as you want to, changing running gear to another manufacturer without giving the original guys a chance to make it right, (in writing!!) will not fair well if things get bad. Either side can say that their parts are not approved and/or tested with the other product. Sorry, just the way of the world. A can of worms to be sure.
My 2 cents.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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How could he possibly make it worse?  |
03-18-2009, 08:37 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Peaks
How could he possibly make it worse? |
If you try really hard, you can always make a bad situation worse. |
03-19-2009, 09:44 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Santa Cruz,
ca
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby CSX4788 with a Dawkins performance 490 ci iron genesis block hydrualic roller
Posts: 246
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Not Ranked
I have GIFT for making things worse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Peaks
How could he possibly make it worse? |
I would like to say that I am often misunderstood (which actually does happen frequently in the written word) but I do have a history of going 0-60 in 1 second flat. Not a very productive style. Can you force people to aquiesce through threat and intimidation - absolutely. Unfortunately you end up with few friends (who want to be around the drama) and you burn a lot of bridges. I have also found that sometimes the louder you say some thing - the less people hear - or the message (even if it is very reasonable) gets lost in the delivery.
__________________
Racing, bull fighting and mountain climbing are the only true sports, everything else is just a game. - Hemmingway
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03-19-2009, 08:56 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Santa Cruz,
ca
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby CSX4788 with a Dawkins performance 490 ci iron genesis block hydrualic roller
Posts: 246
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock
There has to be some product liability involved here beyond the warranty period. I would be very upset and you might consider consulting with an attorney.
I'm not a mechanical expert like Rick or Patrick, so there may be some simple and easy fix. I dunno. However, as a consumer who has spent a load of money on a product that may have been built with a dangerous design flaw and then have the manufacturer claim that there's no possibility for repair? Huh?
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yeah - especially after only 497 miles - which have been relatively gentle - break in the motor - drive it on the free way miles. One of my concerns is that I am not the only one with these uprights. I have already spoken to some other people who had had issues - one of whom got their up rights replaced by SAI, but he says that his are different than the ones I have????
__________________
Racing, bull fighting and mountain climbing are the only true sports, everything else is just a game. - Hemmingway
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03-18-2009, 10:48 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 539, a Ton of Aluminum
Posts: 9,592
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Not Ranked
The most cost effective approach may be to buy a complete setup from Kirkham, but that's coming from the peanut gallery (me). However, there are some smart, creative people/shops, both here on CC and out there in the SF Bay Area that could possibly help solve the problem and make the car safe which is the most important thing.
Then send the bill to SAI and the dealer and ask them nicely to pay it.
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03-18-2009, 10:53 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 539, a Ton of Aluminum
Posts: 9,592
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Not Ranked
Oh, but first document the fact that SAI and the dealer refused or were unable to fix the problem. A few registered/return receipt or FedEx letters should do the trick. Start the documentation process, if you have not done so already.
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03-19-2009, 08:58 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Santa Cruz,
ca
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby CSX4788 with a Dawkins performance 490 ci iron genesis block hydrualic roller
Posts: 246
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Not Ranked
Do emails count?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock
Oh, but first document the fact that SAI and the dealer refused or were unable to fix the problem. A few registered/return receipt or FedEx letters should do the trick. Start the documentation process, if you have not done so already.
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I keep all the emails I get - more to keep things straight.
__________________
Racing, bull fighting and mountain climbing are the only true sports, everything else is just a game. - Hemmingway
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03-18-2009, 10:59 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Highland,
UT
Cobra Make, Engine: Polished KMP #488 / 427SC, 427 SO/482 by KC
Posts: 431
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Not Ranked
3) replace the entire front suspension with one from another vendor like Kirkham
I vote for this option...
or better yet, sell the SA and buy a Kirkham
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03-19-2009, 09:02 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Santa Cruz,
ca
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby CSX4788 with a Dawkins performance 490 ci iron genesis block hydrualic roller
Posts: 246
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Not Ranked
Not willing to pass the liability on
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin
3) replace the entire front suspension with one from another vendor like Kirkham
I vote for this option...
or better yet, sell the SA and buy a Kirkham
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After all that I have been through, I have considered selling the cobra. I bought it (and paid a premium) because it is a csx. I wonder if I got a red headed bastard step child. Unfortunately with he economy the way it is (and the fact that I would have to fix the car before I sold it and then disclose to the new owner that it has a presumed design flaw), I don't think it is gonna sell any time soon or for much.Maybe Kirkam would take it in on trade 
__________________
Racing, bull fighting and mountain climbing are the only true sports, everything else is just a game. - Hemmingway
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