4000 series hub / upright / spidle options

[Three Peaks]

So, you're saying you can't just slip the rotor off? J/K

After looking at the rotor/hub design, would the Wilwood superlite rotors fit and be easier to remove in case of this happening in the future. At least, from what I can glean from this long thread, this is the major problem- not being able to get to the upright bolts due to the non-removable rotor?

Since I have an original style chassis, I would like to eventually like to use the Shelby or Kirkham suspension pieces and I may end up having to deal with these issues. You never know, after this thread a bunch of these front uprights and suspension pieces may come up for sale?

Bob

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Three Peaks

So, you're saying you can't just slip the rotor off? J/K

Will the rotor slip off with a blow torch and a sledgehammer?

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Will the rotor slip off with a blow torch and a sledgehammer?

Not even with a grinder or a plasma cutter (although I do know of some mil spec / EOD tools that would take care of it - although it would never go back together) or the jaws of life will work, but maybe a circular saw with a composite / carbide disk could.

[shelby racer]

I brought my car to my engine builder because there was a little oil leak. Again - for a reason he had NEVER seen before. I had to leave the car with him so he asked if there was any thing else going on with it. I mentioned that there was a squeak in the rear suspension and a sound like the drive shaft hitting when I would turn to go up hill. He said he would give it the once over and even gave me a ride home (an hour each way). Well, he kept finding things and fixing them and 10-12 hours later (over a couple of days) he got to the front end. He stopped when he got to the right side hub and up right.

He called me and said I have some good news and bad news. The good news was that I was still alive and uninjured. I thought he was kidding and didn't "get it" at first. Then he gave me the bad news. Hence starts this oddessy with calls to SAI....

Just imagine if I had not had someone look at the squeak and if they had just stopped there. I guess as some one said recently "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" - although I kept telling my now ex girl friend that the squeaky wheel gets repalced

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Three Peaks

So, you're saying you can't just slip the rotor off? J/K

After looking at the rotor/hub design, would the Wilwood superlite rotors fit and be easier to remove in case of this happening in the future. At least, from what I can glean from this long thread, this is the major problem- not being able to get to the upright bolts due to the non-removable rotor?

Since I have an original style chassis, I would like to eventually like to use the Shelby or Kirkham suspension pieces and I may end up having to deal with these issues. You never know, after this thread a bunch of these front uprights and suspension pieces may come up for sale?

Bob

Hey Bob,
not being qualified to build my own car from the ground up (and apparently making the mistake that who ever built mine in the first place was - or at least cared to do a good job - and sadly not kidding on either point) I admire people who are. I am a decent wrench - better than your average shade tree, but would never call myself a mechanic so I paid SAI a lot of money (less than some have but A LOT to me) for a product that I thought I understood. Even if I have had problems with it that are just inherent to cobras, mine was not an as advertised product. If I knew then what I found out when I got the car, a couple of months after getting the car and all that I have had to go through since - I would have done things differently. In case that was too subtle - I probably would NOT own a Shelby right now. I DEFINITELY would NOT reccomend putting the new CAV derived or original style front suspension from Shelby. Based on personal experience buying a $10 part (and being treated like I bought a whole car), the experience of others I have talked with, and what little I know and understand (and feel comfortable saying that I am smart enough to know that I do not know - which is why I was not offended when someone in the business told me that part of my problem when I was seeking Tech support from a non-Shelby company was that I "just didn't know what I was talking about" - anyone here want to take credit for that one???) I would buy a suspension from Kirkham. It is lighter and stronger and better engineered and you will get better support. Oh yeah, it will also cost less. I am NOT a fan of wilood brakes - based on a dear friend's experience with them on a race car and what I have been told about how they make their street rotors - but some people love them.

Now please don't think that I am saying that SAI is not a good company now or that there have not always been fantastic people there (not all of them and there are still some difficult people who act as though they are Carroll Shelby and deserve all the praise ever associated with Shelby and think that their poop is not odiferous and that they can do no wrong and how dare you question what they say) or that AMY has not done a fantastic job trying to turn it all around.

It is also entirely possible that my car is a red headed step child one-of-a-kind in-bred gap tooth banjo playing mutant that has been going through rehab since I have owned it. It has had soooo many issues and so many serious issues that it is unbelievable to me and others. I think me and my car have not received enough love from its parent company so I lost faith - I think it needs a hug . Things also KEEP coming up. I don't know how different the latest cars from SAI are from mine so I can not say if they are better / worse or the same. People seem VERY happy with their cars. I just have trust issues with mine, but I am still working on the relationship. I guess paying my mechanic to go over the car front to back is like therapy.

As far as parts coming up for sale. It sems like the newer 2nd generation CAV suspension would be fine on a street driven cobra - especially if you stick to street tires

[Three Peaks]

Well, you seem to have a somewhat positive attitude about the whole thing, so at least they haven't killed your spirit (yet).

Hopefully, you'll be on the road soon and it will take the sting of job hunting off your mind and you can enjoy the driving season.

The more I hear these stories about the Shelby cars (yours isn't the first), the more I appreciate and would spend my money, if I had any, on a Kirkham. Hopefully, I will finish my car soon and see what all the fuss about driving one of these is all about.

I'm curious about the issues with the Wilwood rotors, but that is a discussion for another thread.

Bob

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Three Peaks

Well, you seem to have a somewhat positive attitude about the whole thing, so at least they haven't killed your spirit (yet).

Hopefully, you'll be on the road soon and it will take the sting of job hunting off your mind and you can enjoy the driving season.

The more I hear these stories about the Shelby cars (yours isn't the first), the more I appreciate and would spend my money, if I had any, on a Kirkham. Hopefully, I will finish my car soon and see what all the fuss about driving one of these is all about.

I'm curious about the issues with the Wilwood rotors, but that is a discussion for another thread.

Bob

Hey Bob,
I am used to it (unfortunately). Seriously - my luck with cars is unbelievable - and no it is not my fault and it does not spread to cars that I have worked on or ones that belong to other people (although I have made my share of dumb or ignorant mistakes). It is my lot in my so I can either accept it and work harder (kind of like the fact that I am dyslexic) or curse the universe. Unfortunately My name is John and I have a problem. I have a car addiction and it truly fits the criteria of an addiction - I know it is bad for me but I can not help myself .

as far as driving a cobra -they look like sex on wheels. Are they all that (+/- a bag of chips) - not even close. Of all the cars I have driven and gotten rides in (including Carroll and Cleo's series 1 with a vortech and alcons) there are betetr rides (pick any criteria - faster, more comfortable, handle better.... although they are sexy and cool and fun). they are kind of like going out with a buxom bikini model. She looks great and can be a lot of fun but is high maintence, you gotta worry about when you take here out and leave her alone, she may not be a real conversationalist, sometimes attracts too much (and sometimes not the right kind of) attention.....I think you get the idea.

As far as the wilwoods are concerned - the way it was explained to me by an engineer (who had great credentials for hi po cars) who was the head driving instructor for Nor Cal SAAC, who wrote a dissertation on building race / track mustangs (that had to be pulled from public circulation due to concerns over legal liability in this wonderfully litigenous society) - has to do with the way wilwood (as opposed to coleman) casts their rotors and the warping that results from this technique. but you are correct that that is another topic for another thread.

[Got the Bug]

John (SR),

Good to hear that you're nearly on the road again. After some shakedown runs (and inspections) on the streets of Santa Cruz, you'll have flight clearance for a good run over 17 or up Hwy 1 to Alice's for breakfast.

These cars are beautiful to look at, but try to get out put some serious miles on the odo. I don't care what brand you're running, it takes some miles to shake everything down and work out the kinks.

See you on the road sometime.

[Balance_Point]

Wow, that was quite a read. A lot to digest as a perspective new Cobra buyer. Hopefully you will get to enjoy some trouble free miles now. Good luck!

[cobra25]

What was the cause of the sqeak in the rear and the sound of the driveshaft hitting? I think you said that was one of the initial problems.

[shelby racer]

I got it all back together and took it for a little test cruise (~5 miles) on Hwy 17 (Mt Hermon Rd to the next exit Granite Creek / Scotts Valley Dr). Everything seems okay but I will put it on the lift and check it once it has cooled off.

It still squeeks but that is most likely rubber suspension parts that just need to be lubricated. The "drive shaft" noise is gone and I don't actually think it was ever the drive shaft since there was never any evidence when I put it on a lift and looked that it was hitting anything. My mechanic found a whole bunch of loose things in the rear suspension and tightened most of them when he was giving it the once over. I still have to get him to finish looking at it. Not cheap, but a trained eye is worth its weight in gold.

Doe any one know what the torque on the big nut on the back of the up right is supposed to be. We preloaded it to what specs we could find (which put the nut about where it was on the driver's side and a little past where it was on the passenger side) but the bearing still seem to have a little play when you garb the tire top and botton and try to move it in and out relative to each other.

Welcome to Club Cobra Balance_Point. They don't call it the largest unbiased source of cobra info for nothing. Every one has an opinion and you get a lot of knowledge fast.

I will take some more (longer and longer) trips and then re-inspect everything and hopefully call it good.

[Power Surge]

Glad you got it all squared away John. I was going to suggest you have the two alloy parts welded together before putting them back on but I didn't catch you in time.

[shelby racer]

Thanks Sal,
used to be able to do a decent job sticking things together with a mig welder. Not sure if sticking the billet aluminum upright to the steel ball joint mounts would work. I also know so little about welding that do you have to worry about changing the temper when you are welding? It is back together for now but it will be a while before I trust it. Sad, but after being betrayed a couple of times, it hurts. Thanks again
John(;-)

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by shelby racer

I got it all back together and took it for a little test cruise (~5 miles) on Hwy 17 (Mt Hermon Rd to the next exit Granite Creek / Scotts Valley Dr). Everything seems okay but I will put it on the lift and check it once it has cooled off.

It still squeeks but that is most likely rubber suspension parts that just need to be lubricated. The "drive shaft" noise is gone and I don't actually think it was ever the drive shaft since there was never any evidence when I put it on a lift and looked that it was hitting anything. My mechanic found a whole bunch of loose things in the rear suspension and tightened most of them when he was giving it the once over. I still have to get him to finish looking at it. Not cheap, but a trained eye is worth its weight in gold.

Doe any one know what the torque on the big nut on the back of the up right is supposed to be. We preloaded it to what specs we could find (which put the nut about where it was on the driver's side and a little past where it was on the passenger side) but the bearing still seem to have a little play when you garb the tire top and botton and try to move it in and out relative to each other.

Welcome to Club Cobra Balance_Point. They don't call it the largest unbiased source of cobra info for nothing. Every one has an opinion and you get a lot of knowledge fast.

I will take some more (longer and longer) trips and then re-inspect everything and hopefully call it good.

John,

Great to hear you're out doing some short test runs. I'm taking a little sabbatical right now (), so I'm open for a mid-week drive.

After all you've been through with your car lately, lunch is on me in Davenport one day.

Email me when you're free.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

John,

Great to hear you're out doing some short test runs. I'm taking a little sabbatical right now (), so I'm open for a mid-week drive.

After all you've been through with your car lately, lunch is on me in Davenport one day.

Email me when you're free.

Thanks Doug
I am actually working today and tommorrow, have an interview monday, so if you are free , lets try to go to Davenport next tues or wed?
John(;-)

[bret a ewing]

John,

Did you isolate the CSX group of cars with this issue? Some folks that don't drive their "babies" (planters) may not know of the safety problems associated with the uprights. One would think a safety bulletin would be beneficial in preventing a serious accident for the affected cars.
Sal, "keeper of the marque" Menella, may be able to help in this area.
JMHO,
Bret.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by bret a ewing

John,

Did you isolate the CSX group of cars with this issue? Some folks that don't drive their "babies" (planters) may not know of the safety problems associated with the uprights. One would think a safety bulletin would be beneficial in preventing a serious accident for the affected cars.
Sal, "keeper of the marque" Menella, may be able to help in this area.
JMHO,
Bret.

I have no way to tell what cars got what. I think that the original CAV design got a recall (that I never heard about) and were replaced. I think what my car has is what is current. Some 4700 series owners seemed to say that theirs just pulled off from the front. I think everyone should take a look, but I think the fasteners are loctited in so if you try and torque them too much you will HAVE to retorque them all. All of my fasteners were loose (some much worse than others andthe left side was not as bad as the right). I have to say that it really might be just my car that has had this particular problem based on my and its history. Still, better safe than sorry.

[bret a ewing]

Originally Posted by shelby racer

I have no way to tell what cars got what. I think that the original CAV design got a recall (that I never heard about) and were replaced. I think what my car has is what is current. Some 4700 series owners seemed to say that theirs just pulled off from the front. I think everyone should take a look, but I think the fasteners are loctited in so if you try and torque them too much you will HAVE to retorque them all. All of my fasteners were loose (some much worse than others andthe left side was not as bad as the right). I have to say that it really might be just my car that has had this particular problem based on my and its history. Still, better safe than sorry.

Just commenting on another CC post relating to CSX4785 -w- front upright problems.

[tkb289]

John,

Don't know if you remember me, but we met at the CC tour of Canepa car 'museum' in Scotts Valley last January. I remember looking at your car as we were leaving. Hopefully you can get it to run and drive as good as it looks and it sounds like you are at least making progress towards that end.

- Tim

[shelby racer]

It seems like people are trying to hang out tommorrow. Keep an eye peeled. I am sorry I don't remember, but always glad to talk cars.
John(;-)