I hate to sound like a n00b...

larryg · #1 (**permalink**) 11-03-2004, 01:17 PM

...but I am. I work at a Ferrari/Maserati dealer but I am trying to fix a couple of small oil leaks on a customer's 427 replica. It has an aluminum 427 with a dry sump and I can't seem to get the oil pan off.

As far as I can tell, I have all of the bolts off. It has a two piece cast aluminum pan, the front half containing the scavenge pump. I was told to remove the rear section by moving the pan towards the rear to slide it off an internal pipe. Unfortunately, the pan is right up against the cover plate at the bell housing (and the plate appears to go all the way around between the engine and bell housing) so I can't slide it rearward easily.

I am trying to pull the front section off but I am hanging up on something on the passenger side of the block. I have removed both oil fittings on that side (PITA) and I can see a tube in one of the holes (that is supposed to cross over to the oil pump) but not much more than that. I am affraid to keep pulling and see what breaks.

Does anyone know what I could be hanging up on or, even better, where I can get my hands on a daigram showing how this is assembled?

Thanks for your help,
Larry

Sizzler · #2 (**permalink**) 11-03-2004, 04:24 PM

If you're still having problems, you can call Dove...

TECH LINE: Monday - Friday 9:00AM - 4:00PM (440) 236-5139

They made copies of the factory drysump system using original Ford molds. So they should know if anyone does.

Just based on what I know, there should be one large hose coming out of the base of the front cover on the DRIVER's side.
The passenger side should be relatively free, though there are TWO bolts going through the front cover down low on the passenger side.

You could probably see much better if you took the front cover off, and at this point, would it really be that many more billable hours?

I can't really tell what your hangup

is from your description. And all the above assumes you have the factory drysump system (extended front cover with drive gears in the lower part). There were, and are, many different dry sump systems engineered or cobbled together for the FE over the years.

Some dry sump pans connected to the bellhousing as well for rigidity sake.

Ogden?

FYI, Dove's price on their repro of the factory dry sump was $3,500 a few years ago...try not to break anything

larryg · #3 (**permalink**) 11-03-2004, 07:21 PM

Thanks for the advice Sizzler. Are you talking about the front cover behind the crank pulley? If so, that is what I am missing as I have not removed any of that. There were two recessed bolts at the base of the front on either side of the crank pulley, those are out but I did not remove the crank pulley or anything behind it.

BTW, it is a Dove motor and I talked with Jim the other day about it. Basically he said he hasn't pulled the pan with the motor in the chassis but gave me a couple of things to try such as the fittings on the passenger side.

Thanks again,
Larry

(yeah, on Ogden)

EDIT: back in the shop this morning...this motor does not have a big hose coming out of the front cover on the driver's side unless you are talking about the hose coming off the water pump. There are oil lines coming out of the driver's side of the block.

larryg · #4 (**permalink**) 11-04-2004, 01:46 PM

Turns out there is a bolt from inside the oil pan on the passenger side. I have to get the rear of the pan off first before I can remove the front. Unfortunately, that means separating the engine & trans to get enough room to pull the rear part of the pan off of the pipe connecting the two.

Larry

Sizzler · #5 (**permalink**) 11-04-2004, 03:40 PM

Does your front cover look like this?

If so, maybe you would have been time ahead to just remove the front cover with the pan attached in one L-shaped unit, from the front.

What/Why exactly are you going through this exercise.

I know when I swapped oil pans (non-dry-sump) I loosened the engine mounts and jacked the engine up slightly to give me more room. If you need to slide the pan backwards where there's no room and nothing but bellhousing, I can understand your difficulty. Which just makes taking it all off to the front seem the way to go. Hindsight is always 20/20 though.

Hal Copple · #6 (**permalink**) 11-04-2004, 04:04 PM

don't know nuttin about 427 motors, but when i need to drop the sump pan on my Windsor, it hits something at the rear, it wouldn't drop off the bottom of the motor. So found out i needed to loosen the bolts holding the bellhousing to the motor, just a quarter inch, pry it back, (loosening the transmission rear bolts too), then the pan would drop right off. No need to mess with the front cover at all. I also found it tended to hang up on the oil pick-up with the baffelling in the sump, took some wiggling to get it to drop away.

Anyway, for me, it was a ten minute job to pull the bellhousing back ever so slightly. Used a bar lever at the rear of the transmission with a wooden block to lever it back. Easy as pie.

larryg · #7 (**permalink**) 11-04-2004, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sizzler

Does your front cover look like this?

No, the front cover is completely different. The front cover actually rests on top of the front portion of the oil pan. Pulling the front cover will not give me enough access to get to the one bolt that is inside and I am pretty sure the bolt goes into the block. FWIW, the guy I spoke with at Dove today referred to this as their "Can-Am" motor they were building a while back.

The reason I am going through all of this is because of multiple oil leaks...both halves of the oil pan, dry sump fittings on the oil pan, and the rear main seal. We were originally told we could pull the pan and gain acces to the rear main which is supposed to be a two-piece seal. Obviously, it is turning into a bit more of a project than that...

With everything that would be involved with trying to just shift the motor around it seems to make more sense to pull the motor out and make sure we get all of the oil leak sources sealed properly.

Thanks again for all of your help,
Larry

SCOBRAC · #8 (**permalink**) 11-04-2004, 10:32 PM

Good luck. The chances are slim it wont leak after they are "fixed" they all do. We prefer to think of it as marking their territory.

Hal Copple · #9 (**permalink**) 11-05-2004, 03:52 AM

when i was pulling my pan to keep adjusting my Melling oil pumps pressure, i eventually went to a once piece pan gasket, several companies make them. It is a Fel Pro Marine one. Took the time to carefully put the tiny nips at the front and rear into their recesses, then snugged it down, and 50K miles later, never a drop of pan seepage.

Steve R · #10 (**permalink**) 11-05-2004, 08:32 PM

Larry,
Can you post a picture of the pan? What Cobra replica are you working on?
Steve

larryg · #11 (**permalink**) 11-07-2004, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve R

Larry,
Can you post a picture of the pan? What Cobra replica are you working on?
Steve

I'll see what I can (am allowed to) do. I am going to be taking some pictures to docment it before I pull anything else apart.

I do not know who created this replica. I do know it is aluminum bodied with some really nice running gear (adjustable coil overs, wilwood brakes, independant rear...) and a Dove aluminum 427 with a dry sump and dual quads up top.

Larry