Oiling system revisions.

RACER X #99 · #1 (**permalink**) 01-26-2003, 06:35 AM

Need some opinions on my proposed revisions to my oiling system on my new Dart block.
Currently coming out of block and going thru oil filter then thru oil cooler with the Accusump T'eed in between Accusump and return line to Block.

New engine will be adding an oil thermostat and also will be returning oil to block via the front and rear external oil feed ports.

I need some opinions on the corrrect order of layout with the added components.

Thanks,
Cranky

Ron61 · #2 (**permalink**) 01-26-2003, 07:37 AM

Cranky,

There was a thread sometime back where they posted pictures of exactly what you are doing. I think it was under remote oil filters or something along that line but the pictures showed the thermostat and the whole layout. That particular one was using double filters but the same would apply with either double or single. I talked to the guys and I will see if I can find that thread as it was really well laid out.

Cranky,

I found the posts and they are about 35 days ago and it is under double oil filter unit and Roscoe has some pictures and an explanation of exactly how he has his connected and I think that is what you are looking for.

Ron

Roscoe · #3 (**permalink**) 01-27-2003, 12:07 PM

Cranky,

This is pretty much my layout. I come out of the block to the filter, from the filter to the thermostat to the cooler. From the cooler back through the thermostat and to a check valve. After the check valve is a 'T'. The accusump comes off the t and the other end goes back to the engine. The check valve prevents oil from going back to the cooler/filter and directs it to the engine where needed. Let me know if this makes sense or if you have any other questions. If it doesn't make sense take a couple of T&T's and read it again.

Roscoe

hound dog · #4 (**permalink**) 01-30-2003, 12:40 PM

Roscoe,
I'm talking out of pure ignorance here, but why a thermostat on the oil cooler and why go through it twice? Is it set up to bypass the cooler until the oil heats up? That the reason for an in and an out on the thermostat?
h dog

Roscoe · #5 (**permalink**) 01-30-2003, 12:47 PM

Hound dog,

You should have a thermostat because you do not want the oil to be too cool. Therm opens at 180. This is a pic of the therm and you can see the hookup

Roscoe

RACER X #99 · #6 (**permalink**) 01-30-2003, 12:51 PM

Roscoe,
That looks like it is cast steel, not aluminum , am I correct?
Cranky

Also who is the vendor?

Roscoe · #7 (**permalink**) 01-30-2003, 12:53 PM

Cranky,
It's aluminum. I got it from either

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com
or
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com

It's also available from Canton racing.

Roscoe

coyled · #8 (**permalink**) 01-30-2003, 01:01 PM

Roger, run the external oil pump if you can. An external pump will ensure consistent oil pressure. Scott

hound dog · #9 (**permalink**) 01-30-2003, 01:10 PM

Thanks, Roscoe.
h dog

Chaplin · #10 (**permalink**) 01-30-2003, 01:15 PM

Roscoe-
Keep that plumbing map handy. I think I want to install an oil temp thermostat in mine also. Be forewarned, I am going to be coming to you with questions . . .

Mike

Roscoe · #11 (**permalink**) 01-30-2003, 01:17 PM

Anytime Mike..Just ask away. You can stop by and see the installation, just let me know when you'll be in the area.

Roscoe

wilf leek · #12 (**permalink**) 01-30-2003, 01:30 PM

Gosh Cranky my man, it seems strange for a gashole to be contributing to a Cranky tech thread, but never mind, here goes:

My layout is simlar to Roscoe's, cept that I use an oil take off sandwich plate with the filter on it. The thermostat is incorporated into that plate. All the parts are Mocal.

I had some severe issues with the oil passages within that plate -they were very restricted - my die grinder worked overtime on it, both around the take-off ports, and also in and around the thermostat opening passages.
I spoke at length with Mocal about this - they admitted it was an issue, and were supposedly adressing it.

I also ran all the lines in dash 12 (3/4" id equivalent) aeroquip hose and fittings to ensure as low a pressure drop as possible. Some aeroquip (cheaper) fittings are to be avoided - they restrict flow. The non return valve to ensure the Accusump only feeds to the "in" side of the filter is a proper flap valve job, suitable for the line bores I used, and with negligible "forward" oil pressure drop. It alone ran to $150. SInce it is directly in the oil flow when the thermostat is open, I thought this worthwhile. There are other cheaper alternatives, but they offer far worse restriction to flow.

If you use the thermostat shown above I would recommend you open it up and satisfy yourself that the internal passageways are OK. Especially since you are talking about a road race engine here.

In fact I have issues with a lot of aftermarket oil system equipment - serious engine builders should not view it as "fit and forget", rather as "examine carefully and think about it".

My oiling system works fine on the highways and on the track, so I guess I must have done something right.

HTH

SuperHart · #13 (**permalink**) 01-30-2003, 04:28 PM

I agree with the English Gentleman. I too use the Mocal Sandwich Style Adapter with the built-in thermostat and it works "bloody soo-pah" once I had a go at it with a die grinder. Also, using that adapter certainly did cut down on the amount of plumbing involved. I will concede, though, that having a maze of stainless braided hoses and colorful fittings snaking around under your hood sure does impress the lookey loos at the car shows. I used -10 hoses and fittings to the oil cooler and the electric pre-luber and everything works great. I had asked an engine builder what size hose to use and he recommended using the -10, saying that there were no oil passages in the engine even that large so he saw no sense in going with hoses any larger than that.

RACER X #99 · #14 (**permalink**) 01-30-2003, 05:45 PM

Ok,
I made my decision, no external pump. Just the thermostat. This is just a fun car not a serious real racer. I do not have unlimited funds like some others. I had a budget planned for this new engine and I am already 2k over the budget. I need money for tires , motels, track fees and fuel for me and the car. I'm done.
Thanks everone for your input and great ideas.

Cranky aka Roger

Roscoe · #15 (**permalink**) 02-04-2003, 09:07 AM

This is a shot of the thermostat and check valve (brass) and the 'T' to the accusump solenoid

Roscoe

hcollado · #16 (**permalink**) 02-04-2003, 02:14 PM

Roscoe,

I am adding an Acussump to my system but I was told by the folks at Canton to avoid the check valve if at all possible. They are concerned about the check valve getting stuck on the closed position and the engine cooking. I don't have a low oil preassure warning light or alarm.

Instead of a "T", I'll be using a "Y" fitting to bring in the oil from the Acussump as close as possible to the block.

Your opinion?

Hector

wilf leek · #17 (**permalink**) 02-05-2003, 01:48 AM

Hector - personally I can't see how an accusump system can be 100% effective without a check valve, certainly for pre-start pre-oiling. You need to ensure that all of the pressurised oil from the Accusump goes to the right place.
The possibility of the valve "sticking" is fairly remote if you go for an (expensive) flap valve type of large diameter. I would use no other type.
Without going to check, I seem to recall that a non return valve is shown on the Accusump instructions.

750hp · #18 (**permalink**) 02-05-2003, 03:29 AM

Accusump's oil line Check valve (#24-280) ensures all the oil being discharged out of an Accusump goes to lubricate the engine bearings and is not fed back toward the pump.

To be used in a system where a remote filter or cooler is used.

This was on their own website :
http://www.accusump.com/acc_products...ck_valves.html