American vs. Cheap - Page 9

RockSnake · #**161** (**permalink**) 12-18-2003, 06:16 AM

Obviously, I was premature in my "final" post.

Stever; the quote was from Dicken's "A Christmas Carole"...a comment made by Ebenezer Scrooge.

The pay-range for nurses and techs in the DFW area is in the $15-$18 per hour range. But it jumps to about $20 if you have a 4-year degree in nursing.

FYI - IQ rankings show computer professionals with an average IQ of 120 to 140 (depending upon how thinly you slice the data). And these are the current jobs going overseas. About 2/3 of workers are not even intellectually qualified to take these jobs...much less trained.

Ok some ideas (remember this is brainstorming):
- A tax on every dollar leaving the country. This would also address overseas purchases (such as eBay) that bypass sales-taxes.
- Differing tax rates on American corporations, vs. "international" corporations.
- FICA tax on contract employees, regardless of location.

Steve R · #**162** (**permalink**) 12-18-2003, 06:19 AM

All,
I asked this on pg7. If I got a reply, I missed it.
Question:
Why are people not talking about all the environmental regulations and social engineering in this country that is chasing the manufacturing jobs away from the U.S.?
Steve

Steve R · #**163** (**permalink**) 12-18-2003, 06:40 AM

Turk,
You wrote:
"What applies to US versus Overseas, is happening right here under our own noses in a smaller scale. Many California businesses have left California, and moved to Nevada. Reno is now the distribution center for a lot of goods and major companies who serve California.
California made damn sure that they are better of doing business there. The companies did what they had to do. They went there.
Now California no longer has those jobs, and lost the revenue from such businesses."

That is exactly what Continental did with our heavy check facility in LAX.(in the early '90's) It was a massive operation. (Approx 3000 jobs) I can't recall the exact figure, But L.A. something like DOUBLED the fees overnight to help pay for the riots. (you know the old line of political B.S: "we'll just raise taxes on business to pay for it") Our new management amputated that hemorrhaging limb as fast as they could and moved the check to kuala Lumpour Indonesia.
I can remember almost being able to hear the stampede of mechanics heading toward Newark N.J. for our jobs!

In our business seniority is everything. they handed me my layoff notice that november (early '90's). (merry Christmas!) I was literaly one of the last 3 guys on the list to get laid off

Steve

KobraKarl · #**164** (**permalink**) 12-18-2003, 08:16 AM

Stever,

Sorry to here you are one of the latest victoms of corperate "finetuning "...I have seen our local economy pounded with similar conditions.......some of the larger employers in our region-(like Boing)- have used every political/economical indicator to publicly excuse themselves for putting thousands of local jobs to the sword.......(they then reappear in the far east).....This is is not only tolerated by our government ....it is encouraged.

KK

Steve R · #**165** (**permalink**) 12-18-2003, 09:47 AM

Karl,
Thanks. I should have been clearer in my post. That was in the early '90's. I got my job back and moved to Houston. I'm doing O.K. now.
Steve

KobraKarl · #**166** (**permalink**) 12-18-2003, 06:19 PM

Steve,
Yea, Iwas thinking it was weird of you to sit on that info for the duration of this topic and then let it out now....

...............

KK

CSX 4039 · #**167** (**permalink**) 12-19-2003, 08:14 AM

The sinking dollar may correct a certain amount of the problem. Honda's for $30,000. Chevy's overseas for $10,000. Unfortunately for investors, our stock markets will tank when that happens, as they are being propped up by foreign investment. Buy Palladium. It's half the price of gold right now.

KobraKarl · #**168** (**permalink**) 12-19-2003, 08:45 AM

Bett,

I am also watching the market ....I smell another "correction" in the wind.

What is Palladium,? what is it used for ?

KK

CSX 4039 · #**169** (**permalink**) 12-19-2003, 09:13 AM

palladium is an industrial precious metal selling for $210/ounce. It is used in catalytic reactions, white gold, dental fillings, etc. It and silver are currently cheap compared to the price of platinum and gold. If the dollar continues to devalue, metals will rise, as will inflation. Good time to buy a Cobra on borrowed money, as the money you pay back will be worth less than the money you borrow.

(Mr. Kirkham, you may send my commision to my business address).

And yes, the next correction will make the last one seem tame. SFCJ- are you paying attention? The next one will involve real estate on the coasts. Gonna be fugly.

CowtownCobra · #**170** (**permalink**) 12-19-2003, 11:49 AM

I have to agree that the overheated real estate market is due for a correction. And unfortunately, a lot of that investment dollars that was taken out of the stock market, was put into real estate. So we get the second round of the economic crash.

sparks · #**171** (**permalink**) 12-19-2003, 11:49 AM

I think its funny how everyone likes to blame the unions....If you think that paying 50-70k a year for a skilled tradesman is to much your nuts. The big dogs of the companys tell you thats the problem. Alot of the problem is corp. waste. Example, Lucent tech. laid off thousands of workers not to long ago. So what did they do, spent over 100,000 million on new buildings for the corp. office. Ceo's would fly out on corp. jets just to see if the granite floors were what they wanted. They would approve something and then rip it out and change it later. Corp. waste and greed is much more a problem than labor costs. Look at AA they got screwed by there bigdogs also. I would give up some profits to keep workers employed and happy anyday. All the greedy ceo's can lick my jingle balls.

Steve R · #**172** (**permalink**) 03-11-2004, 08:06 AM

An interesting little tidbit:
http://www.mddailyrecord.com/pub/4_1.../151893-1.html
Steve

rdorman · #**173** (**permalink**) 03-11-2004, 09:25 AM

This has been and will continue to go on. It will not stop. So the question is, how do we maintain our standard of living and compete globally? I am no economist or anything like that so I have no answers. I do know that it is a very complex situation. We have our strengths and we must continue to support those.

Some times, and ecspecially in the past, foriegn goods = poor quality. But that has and continues to change. It was just a few years ago that the Chrysler plant with the highest productivity and initial quality rating was in Mexico. The higher the quality the products and services offered out of the country the more we loose the edge (look at Japan for instance).

We are in the growing pains of a Global economy and all of us will experience change whether we like it or not. I see our standard of living going down while the rest of the worlds goes up. I just read the other day that the median per capita in Europe is 27K U.S. while in the U.S. it is 28K. That suprised me that Europe was that close. Didn't use to be that way. But in China it can be as low as $500 to as high as $5000 for top layers of professionals.

I think people will generally do what is in their best interest. Companies are owned and operated by people. So I expect corporations to do what is in there best interest. Fortuniatly the concept of Social Responsibilty and the demand for it by consumers will cause some third world countries to increase the working and standards for their work force, increasing their costs and helping to level the playing field.

It will take time. And it will not be settled in out life times.

I am a computer professional. A few years ago I could demand pretty much what ever salary I wanted. And companies would be standing in line to pay it! Times have changed. Not so much, at least for me, because of shipping stuff off shore but because of market correction. I call it market correction because as much as I enjoyed it, I fealt the market was over inflated. Sure, a major over simplification.

Where it hit me is my company decided to eliminate all contractors. Which meant me. 7.5 years as a contractor with one client! A good run by anyones standards. I was given the option to pick an exit date or entertain an offer. Eventually I choose the latter and became an employee. A 38% REDUCTION in gross pay. And I was damn fortuniate it was not larger. Plus I did not make the same mistake as some of the Dot-commers made and adjust my standard of living up to the inflated salary levels. I knew it would not last, I almost fealt guilty depositing that check every week (almost!). Still living in the same house that I lived in when my wife and I gave each other wiper blades for Christmas and where damn glad to get them! We took the fat times as an oportunity to become liquid financially and are damn glad we did!

Change is painfull. And I am grateful that it has not hit me harder than it has.

Rick

BevanWright · #**174** (**permalink**) 03-11-2004, 12:42 PM

Why is this discussion on Club Cobra - shouldnt you be in Club Economics, or Club Anti-Foreigners?

Steve R · #**175** (**permalink**) 03-11-2004, 03:54 PM

Because we are thinking human beings.
Steve
PS
What the hell is club Anti Foreigners?

Gatorac · #**176** (**permalink**) 03-11-2004, 06:12 PM

It's interesting to hear the talk about "americans loosing their jobs to other countries" when I can't find qualified employees.

ToyCollector · #**177** (**permalink**) 03-11-2004, 06:34 PM

As much as it pains me to say that I watched a Michael Moore movie, his movie "The Big One" (1997) was just on IFC and I watched it. Pretty well covers this whole thread. Also proves this crap goes on regardless of who is in office. Good movie BTW.

Turk · #**178** (**permalink**) 03-11-2004, 06:55 PM

Gatorac,
I am looking to relocate to Florida. I was shooting for Brandon where I used to live.
Brandon, Bradenton what's the difference.

What do I have to do?

TURK
A foreign worker..

CSX 4039 · #**179** (**permalink**) 03-11-2004, 07:50 PM

Our manufactured goods will never be competitive when you can make more money on welfare in this country then you can by busting your balls in China. There is no manifest destiny that says Americans must have the highest standard of living. We used to to have the smartest best educated workers, Now, we are something like 23rd in the world. Why should we pay an unmotivated, uneducated American $10/hour to do something, when we can pay a socially climbing Chinese guy to to it for $.30?

Popular Chinese saying-

"The Americans watch the televisions, the Chinese make them".

We are getting our clocks cleaned, and 90% of the country doesn't have a clue as to why.

Can Americans buy land in New Zealand????

decooney · #**180** (**permalink**) 03-11-2004, 08:14 PM

Gatorac/Jim,

Just curious about the employee shortage you have encountered while ther are lots of unemployed people in the US ... What is the specific criteria for the stated "qualified employees" you are looking for? Where are previous applicants falling short?

Is there a...

Difference on pay scale & applicant expectations?
Difference in skills required to do the job?
Work schedule not acceptable?
Difference in benefits expectations?
Geography issues?
Travel issues?
Difference about working conditions?

Your answer might enlighten us a bit...