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10-27-2007, 11:18 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Lakeland,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 427SC FMS 351W
Posts: 199
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Not Ranked
Clutch adjustment and Throwout Bearing Q
After installing a new TKO600, I had to adjust my clutch throw as expected to active the clutch and stop the input shaft from rotating to shift while the car is stopped.
My external slave cylinder will move the fork end about 1" to disengage the clutch. After adjusting the nut on the external slave shaft, it was more than I thought but the clutch works! As the adjustment is made I know the throwout bearing is being pushed into the pressure plate fingers. Is the throwout bearing supposed to be engaged on the PP fingers all the time or just when the clutch pedal is pressed? Or should the throwout bearing and clutch fork be pulled back away from the pressure plate fingers with a return spring when the clutch pedal is not pressed?
I did install a return spring after the swap and clutch throw adjustment but I do not think it is doing anything because of the slave shaft nut adjustment required to operate the clutch.
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10-27-2007, 04:34 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Manteca,
Ca.
Cobra Make, Engine: None, sold it
Posts: 2,439
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I had the same question about my cable clutch setup and was informed here on CC that a little pressure on the fingers by the throwout bearing was normal and has been since the mid 80's on fords. I confirmed this with a mechanic at the local Ford dealer. I am from the old school and I have never believed that was the correct way to do it. I guess the new technology in throwout bearings is a lot better now. The mechanic at the dealer said that around 12 lbs of pressure is correct.
Terry
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10-20-2008, 06:24 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Lakeland,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 427SC FMS 351W
Posts: 199
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Not Ranked
Clutch TO Bearing Adjustment
Terry, I appreciate your feedback and I hope modern TO bearings can be in contact with the pressure plate 100% of the time without early failure because I need to "pre-load" a certain amount to get the throw of my slave to move the arm enough to completely disengage the clutch. I too believed that during rest, the TO bearing should be away from the rotating pressure plate. I have asked several others in the hobby and most reply that the TO bearing at rest should not touch the pressure plate.
To help me feel better, I would like to hear from others. Should a modern TO bearing touch or not the pressure plate at rest (no foot on the clutch)?
I am asking because my external slave will only move the outside tip of my clutch arm about 3/4". I do not believe the clutch is completely disengaged when I shift. I have the longer clutch arm that pivots on the passenger side. My clutch arm must be "pushed" toward the front of the car to disengage. This direction seems different from many other clutch arm set-ups. I think I need 1" or so of clutch arm travel to completely disengage.
Thanks in advance
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10-21-2008, 02:49 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Grand Rapids,
Mi
Cobra Make, Engine: Hurricane 427S/C, KC/Pond aluminum 427/482 SO, TKO 600
Posts: 597
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Not Ranked
The drivers side pivot has better geometry, and will allow you to bring the T.O. bearing off the pressure plate with room to spare, and fully disengage the clutch. It is my understanding that the passenger side pivot is used with a cable type clutch, and not meant for the hyd. slave type clutch.
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10-21-2008, 03:59 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,389
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Edited......
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www.lykinsmotorsports.com
Last edited by blykins; 10-22-2008 at 03:19 AM..
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10-21-2008, 04:01 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,389
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Also, most slave cylinder setups have the pivot on the driver's side. You're actually pulling the fork back towards the rear of the car.
With the pivot on the other side, I think it's really more set up for a cable operated clutch.
What bellhousing are you using?
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10-21-2008, 07:57 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Manteca,
Ca.
Cobra Make, Engine: None, sold it
Posts: 2,439
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I am using a T-5 trans and bellhousing with a cable clutch (pivot ball on passenger side). I was going to change to HYD but decided not to. There is a slave that bolts right up to two bosses on the T-5 trans and is a push type. It pushes from the trans forward. The street rodders in my area use it a lot.
Terry
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10-21-2008, 08:03 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Lakeland,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 427SC FMS 351W
Posts: 199
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Not Ranked
More info but same original question???
I now realize the longer clutch arm (that pivots on the passenger side) is for a cable setup. My car built by HRE (Billy Andrews) came that way. This setup worked with the old 3550 with Centerforce PP and disk and Lakewood bellhousing but it was a senstive adjustment to achieve complete disenagement.
I swapped in a TKO600 using the same flywheel, PP, bellhousing, and new Centerforce disk (26 splines) along with the same Lockheed Wagner slave and Tilton 7/8 master cylinder.
Because most slave setups position the slave to push backwards (for drivers side clutch arm pivot) and the unique slave mounting bracket I have, it will be easier for me to swap the current 7/8 MC for a 15/16 or prehaps 1" for more slave travel. I need to make some calculations / measurements to ensure that I do not push the slave pistion on of its bore.
My second option is to fit the Wilwood pull type slave.
But I still have the same original question; do modern TO bearings need to be clear of the rotating clutch assembly at rest?????
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10-22-2008, 03:18 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,389
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On a linkage system, like an old Ford with a Z-bar, there should be 1/4" of space between the TOB and the pressure plate.
On a hydraulic or cable system, the TOB should lightly rest on the pressure plate.
Now with that being said, I would make sure that your hydraulic line is bled perfectly so that you can get all the travel you need.
Also, if you go to a larger master cylinder, the amount of force that you'll need to put on the clutch pedal to fully engage it will go UP. The amount of travel needed to get the same slave cylinder movement will go DOWN.
If you go to a smaller master cylinder, the amount of force that you'll need to put on the clutch pedal to fully engage it will go DOWN. The amount of travel needed will go UP.
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10-22-2008, 09:57 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rosamond,
Ca
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR, 331 Sportsman block, T5Z, 3.55 IRS, Fuel Safe cell
Posts: 97
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Not Ranked
I'm using the Wilwood pull type slave, With Wilwood master cylinders, and originally tried a 7/8" master for the clutch. This proved to be too light, very little feel and not enough movement at the TOB. A 1" master cured this. The clutch now has a good feel and is easy to modulate.
The TOB is designed to contact the pressure plate fingers when not engaged.
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FFR, 331 SBF dynoed 372RWHP@ 6100 RPM on 87 octane pump gas
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01-04-2009, 05:32 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Framingham,
Ma
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 228
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Hi J,
The T/O bearing needs at least .100" clearance to the fingers with the slave piston fully retracted. The reason it needs clearance is so when the clutch disc wears, the fingers rise and if the fingers are already in contact with the T/O bearing the clutch will slip under load causing the clutch to fail because of never fully engaging.
Call me with any questions.
Mike Forte
508 875 0016
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40 Pearl St
Framingham, Ma. 01702
fortesparts.com
508 875 0016
In 1993 Mike made the first conversion of a Ford Tremec to GM 5-speed. It bolts to stock bellhousings w/out an adapter. The FE Tremec, the Mustang adjustable quadrant are originals from Mike.
One of 12 Tremec Elite Distributors worldwide for: T-5, T-56 Magnum & TKO-500 & TKO-600 ,Midshifter, Frt shifter, offset Vette shifter.
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03-08-2010, 11:25 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Weatherby Lake,
MO
Cobra Make, Engine: Premier Motorsports
Posts: 88
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Not Ranked
Clutch
So, if I have a 3/4" Wilwood MC and a Wilwood slave cylinder, what would be a reason that the clutch takes so much (leg) force to depress the clutch. My clutch appears to be acting correct, engages and disengages basically at the floor. We have about 1 inch of movement from the slave cylinder, just very difficult to depress and hold clutch.
Thoughts?
Paul
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03-08-2010, 11:35 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,389
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Not Ranked
What style pressure plate are you using? A Long style plate will be harder to push in than most diaphragms.
Also, you said that you substituted in a Centerforce disc....I don't mess with CF stuff....is it the same thickness as the previous disc?
Flat side of the disc to the flywheel, right?
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