[Dangerous poll #2] Who played the most important role in the Cobra?

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by somedayaurora

It's called a Shelby Cobra ain't it .
SDR

A GTO is a GM But GM had nothing to do with it.It was Delorean,Estes & Knudsen that made it a legend.

[CBattaglia]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

A GTO is a GM But GM had nothing to do with it.It was Delorean,Estes & Knudsen that made it a legend.

Cobrabill - That picture of Hillary is disturbing. But, depicts her dead nutz!!

[ACBill]

Originally Posted by somedayaurora

It's called a Shelby Cobra ain't it .
SDR

I grew up in the sixties knowing it as an "AC Cobra", not a Shelby Cobra. I don't think that "Shelby" tag was hung on a car until many years later, and even then it wasn't a Roadster.

Without AC Cars the car would have never been. That is where the true roots of the car began.

Others just took the seed, made a hybrid species, added fertilizer, and made it grow..so is it the farmer (chicken or otherwise) or the producer of the original seed that should get the credit..?

Sort of a "What came first, the chicken farmer, or the egg?", kind of question..

[RICK LAKE]

GUYS if the chickens had not caught a bird flu back in the early 60's and had to be killed and burnt by the thousands, CS would still be a chicken farmer and not a legend maker. CS has the ability to BS and did this to put together a British car and an American motor. As far as who played the most important roll in the cobra, The MECHANICS are the WINNERS. Without them this car is still sitting on jack stands. Machinist for building great motors. Have never seen a car win a race without a great motor. There is alot of roles that helped make the cobra a legend. Have to remember that CS. went to Africa for 10 years. Had it not been for a few replica car companies to continue on the legend it would have died in the 70's. Having the best drivers in the 60's and early 70's also needs to be included.
Most important role----- BIRD FLU. Rick L.

[tkb289]

As said above, Shelby is the guy that brought it all together, but he certainly did not do it alone.

All of the guys on the list had a part of making the Cobra what it was. So one vote for Shelby ... but I think they are all worthy of a vote.

[John Seagraves]

Elvis Presley in Viva Las Vegas, lol

[m5extc]

They all did have a hand in it. Ford backed it. There is no denying any of that. However if it weren't fort Shelby it would never had seen the sucess that it did. For god sakes he painted that poor, now blue, used to be cream, 289 car something like 20+ times. Shelby is good at what he does, plus he has always been smart in marketed. Just like Steve Dinan with BMW and Chip Foose and every other household name. There is a reason my glove bow has his signature on it.........

Andrei

[RICK LAKE]

Ac Bristol and Ford made this possible. Shelby is a pitch man. The fact of having one of the best west coast drivers at this time added to this legend, Ken Miles. IMO the real people who played the most important role where the mechanics, engineers, and machinists. No car can win without a good motor that becomes a great motor. This means both Small block and Big block cars. Some of the greatest drivers all where in the right location also. When the stars line up in order, you can do no wrong. I do think it is nice that in the last couple of years CS has acknowledged some of the people who this fairy tale could not have been done without. Rick L.

[James Stern]

Rick, Time to batten down the hatches. It's not going to be a Cobra kind of day

[CobraEd]

Who the hell is Ken Miles ?


.

[Snakebit]

You don't know about Ken Miles? Pick up a Cobra book and start reading about "Teddy Tea Bag".

[Jac Mac]

They guy who wrote the article about AC stopping production of the car, prior to that one of the top contenders was an Austin Healey among other ideas, who knows what the outcome might have been then, Shelby was intent on the concept of using an existing car & at the time there were several contenders for the powerplant---but which one...

[Buzz]

Remington was a major contributing player in the success story, but I can't shake the feeling that the outcome would have been similar even if some of the periphal names were different.

Basic ingredients:

CARROLL SHELBY was committed to his goal.

AC was the perfect candidate for more than one reason - it was no fluke that they were chosen.

GM already had the Vette and were not interested. Ford had no sportscar and were more receptive.

So here we already have the basic Cobra coming together as an AC Ace modified to accept Ford power.

Evolution and develpoment:

Shelby was an experienced and talented racer so he has a feel for what it would take to make the car perform. He hired people to make it happen. If they didn't deliver results, they would have been replaced with people that could.

Street cars needed to be sold, Shelby's a natural Snake oil salesman and the Cobra hype began.

Shelby recruited drivers who could put the car in the winners circle. The car was light and fast. There was no shortage of talented drivers (then or now) and once again - If they didn't deliver results, they would have been replaced with people that could.

Chevy skunkworks deployed the Gran Sport (sp?) Vettes in Nassau. Shelby's feathers were ruffled and the big block Cobra was concieved.

The Ace body/chassis is what it is and the necessary modifications to accomodate the big block engine were pretty much academic. Hence the Cobra we know and love today.

Shelby's magic dust and snake oil cement the big block Cobra's rep as the fastest production car in the world.

The saga of the Texan in bib overalls taking on the world has mass media and popular appeal.

The car is brutally fast, and as an accident of it's roots and subsequent practical modifications, is stunningly beautiful yet stark and simple in execution. As a result, the Cobra goes on to become the most replicated shape in automotive history.

The purpose here was not to post an oversimplified Cobra chronology. I attempt to show that once the ball was set in motion, the evolution of the Cobra , driven by Shelby's ambition and influenced by the conditions and developments of the day, followed a fairly logical and predictable path. Shelby knew what he wanted to accomplish and the other factors were made to fall into place. As for the other people who without question played significant roles - yes they did - but arguably and with no disrespect, they were not likely the only people around at the time who could do what they did. Shelby was the only one who approached AC and Ford with a persuasive idea.

All things considered, I believe that Shelby wanted something real bad and he amassed the team and the resources to make it happen.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Maybe the original question should have been, "Other than Carroll Shelby, who was..."

[SunDude]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

Maybe the original question should have been, "Other than Carroll Shelby, who was..."

Maybe...but then again, only half of voters have chosen him so far...

[cobra25]

Has to be Ken Miles.

Shelby had an idea for the Cobra, Ken developed it into a winner.
Shelby wanted to build a 427 Cobra, Ken developed it into a winner.

Ford wanted Shelby to race the new Mustang, Ken developed it into a winner.

Shelby and Brock wanted to design a car to beat Ferrari, Ken developed it into a winner

Ford wanted Shelby to race a GT-40 and you guessed it, Ken developed it into a winner.

Sure, there were a lot of great drivers, mechanics and manufacturers during this time. But, if you had to pick one guy, it has to be Ken Miles.
If you are still not convinced just ask Carroll Shelby.
I honestly think if Miles had worked for Duntov, history might have been a little different.

[Cobra Lite]

All who have posted have expressed good reasons why their choice is the one most important to the creation of the car we love. So...

Another way of looking at it is, which one could have not been involved and by their absence, would have killed the car from ever being developed?

But even with that you have to be reasonable as so many factors came together at the right time to make the end result happen.
We could say, "what if CS's father never met his wife...?"

AC had already installed Ford engines (6 cyl) in the ACE as well as selling several rolling chassis to the builder of the limited run of CORVACE cars that used Corvette V8 engines and were sold in the US. (The fact that CS raced against one in '59 has been discussed in other threads) So, if CS had not been able to get Ford to front the money to buy the rolling chassis cars he would then get Miles to develop into a race car, would he have given up? Not likely in my mind, CS is a salesman and a very good one, he would have gone to Dodge and then to anyone else to build "his" car.

Just imagine the Cobra with a Renault engine!
Ok, probably not, but a hemi would have been fun.

If CS had been unable to find anyone with deep pockets and a suitable V8 willing to invest in him and he had to give up on the plan, would someone else have had the same idea? What if the builder of the CORVACE had hired Ken Miles to help with developing and driving the car? So many what if's...

AC ACE's were competing in the US with a variety of engines and doing very well. I believe it was just a very fortuitous situation that made it all come together, but it is the beauty of the ACE shape that AC modified to fit the bigger and bigger tires that became available that made the car the memorable vehicle it is. The race success it achieved is due to Miles and Remington development and so many great drivers.

So, who do I vote for as the most important?
All of the above were important to the final outcome but I do believe that another person could have stepped into CS shoes and achieved the same results. He was the catalyst, but not indispensable. So I vote for Miles as the most important role

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

It would never had happened without Shelby.

[khansmith]

the catylst was Mr. Shelby. he had the concept and he pulled in the right people. This is what makes a good CEO today: a vision and the know-how to make it happen by organizing people and assets. I am NOT a fan of Mr. Shelby's recent behavior but I have to give props when they are due.

[Buzz]

Actually old man Enzo was the REal man behind the GTO. All the others, including the folks at Pontiac were a bunch of piggybackers.