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 1Likes
06-14-2012, 12:49 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Jonesboro,
AR
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft 874 solid red Roush 427 small block 515 hp
Posts: 572
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Not Ranked
427 engine
The 427 Windsor is almost exactly same bore x stroke as 428 FE.
__________________
There were no atheists in the foxholes.
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06-14-2012, 12:51 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Jonesboro,
AR
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft 874 solid red Roush 427 small block 515 hp
Posts: 572
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Not Ranked
427 engines
The 427 Windsor is almost exactly same bore x stroke as 428 FE. With a similar cam and comparable valve sizes, wouldn't they sound pretty close?
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There were no atheists in the foxholes.
Last edited by rpatton3; 06-14-2012 at 08:17 PM..
Reason: Typo
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06-14-2012, 02:31 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: St. Louisville,
Oh
Cobra Make, Engine: A&C 67 427 cobra SB
Posts: 2,444
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Not Ranked
Patrick - were you talking about the total sound ie lifter tappet, or only the exhaust note?
I have to say that for an exhaust note only, engines of similar bore, stroke, ports, valves and timing will sound the same if they talk through the same exhaust pipes. Although when the cam gives a wild idle, the mass of the rotating assembly would have to matter. The heavier mass would have to smooth out the idle. On second thought maybe the mass would make a difference on the sound wave too.
Ok now my curiosity has the better of me. Can anyone come up with a 427 W and a 428 FE with similar cam grind and pipes?
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06-14-2012, 02:45 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,916
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by olddog
Patrick - were you talking about the total sound ie lifter tappet, or only the exhaust note?
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Neither. I was talking about the overall sound that the engine mass itself will make. If you could have a SB versus BB comparison that somehow matched everything to be the same (cam specs, exhaust, compression, etc.), and I know that would be difficult to do, you would find that the big block in that magic comparison test would have a much more pleasing tone that the SB.
A couple of years ago my car was idling at a car show while I was standing by it. A group of hearing impaired kids came up and one girl stood next to it, watched it, and then excitedly signed something to her friend. The friend turned to me and said "she loves the sound of your motor." I kind of stood there with a stupid look on my face and, before I could ask 'how?' he said "she can feel it." And it's true. While I have "extra quiet side pipes" that lessen the decibels, you can still feel the sound. That's a big block for you; small blocks don't do that. |
06-14-2012, 02:58 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 539, a Ton of Aluminum
Posts: 9,588
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt
That's a big block for you; small blocks don't do that.
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Poppycock. Small blocks can't be "felt"? Where's "What's his face?" when you need him?  |
06-14-2012, 04:03 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Covington,
wa
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance # 532, 466 BB, 560HP
Posts: 3,027
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Not Ranked
Why would you want to feel a ................. 
 Never mind. This just keeps going down hill.
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John Hall
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06-14-2012, 04:14 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chester Springs,
PA
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham 289 FIA #690, FRPP 427 Boss engine
Posts: 764
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Not Ranked
Oh yeah, well a blind guy said he could see that my 427w was badass!
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RCR GT40 SOLD to Fast 5
Kirkham #690 289 FIA
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06-14-2012, 07:12 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: bridgeport,
n.y
Cobra Make, Engine: era 427 side oiler
Posts: 106
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Not Ranked
if you have to ask if you need an fe, you probably do!
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06-15-2012, 02:29 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Virginia Beach, Va & Port Charlotte, Fl.,
Posts: 2,280
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt
Neither. I was talking about the overall sound that the engine mass itself will make. If you could have a SB versus BB comparison that somehow matched everything to be the same (cam specs, exhaust, compression, etc.), and I know that would be difficult to do, you would find that the big block in that magic comparison test would have a much more pleasing tone that the SB.
A couple of years ago my car was idling at a car show while I was standing by it. A group of hearing impaired kids came up and one girl stood next to it, watched it, and then excitedly signed something to her friend. The friend turned to me and said "she loves the sound of your motor." I kind of stood there with a stupid look on my face and, before I could ask 'how?' he said "she can feel it." And it's true. While I have "extra quiet side pipes" that lessen the decibels, you can still feel the sound. That's a big block for you; small blocks don't do that. |
It's those solid flat tappet cam lobes disappearing that gives you that "unique" sound
Tell him Brent!!!
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Too many toys?? never!
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06-15-2012, 04:05 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Windham,,
Me
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 1,590
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt
Not true. The sound of a big block does not come from the size of the space in the cylinders, but rather it comes from the size and shape of the metal of the block. Just like a bell, it's not the size of the "hole" that makes up the underside of the bell, it's the size of the crown, waist, soundbow, etc that makes up the bell itself. I have never heard, or felt the sound, of a small block that was the same as a big block. Now, I firmly believe you can make a SB just as powerful as a BB, but you can never make it sound the same, anymore than you can make a small bell make the same sound as a big bell. |
Of course I expected this opinion and we all have them.Most people and I do mean most people will never know the difference.Not discrediting you sir but I have been in this business for more than 50 years have seen and heard most everything internal combustion.You certainly can have a given ci of any block style built to sound near identical,and also have no need to prove it.
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06-15-2012, 04:27 AM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,916
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdross1
Most people and I do mean most people will never know the difference.
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... and most people can not tell the difference between filet mignon and properly sauteed dog food. But, just to be clear, are you saying "even with my 50+ years of experience, a properly built SB can still fool me in to believing it to be a BB?" |
06-16-2012, 12:57 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Jonesboro,
AR
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft 874 solid red Roush 427 small block 515 hp
Posts: 572
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Not Ranked
Maybe an analogy is a Stradivarius violin and a "fiddle" with both playing similar music.
Some can tell the difference and some can not.
__________________
There were no atheists in the foxholes.
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06-16-2012, 01:53 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern,
NC
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 235
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpatton3
Maybe an analogy is a Stradivarius violin and a "fiddle" with both playing similar music.
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My take is a Stradivarius might be something Enzo built.
Big block Cobra is a 16lb sledgehammer,
Small block Cobra is a 12lb sledgehammer.
Either can smash a Stradivarius to splinters.  |
06-16-2012, 02:00 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,916
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Not Ranked
I asked one SB Cobra owner (with one of the 'better' names) why he went with a SB. His answer: "Because I bought the car before I knew about FE engines." Two points for honesty. |
06-16-2012, 02:23 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: VALLEY FORGE,
PA
Cobra Make, Engine: SUPERFORMANCE w DOUG MEYER ENGINE
Posts: 1,958
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Not Ranked
Hey Pat
I will run you anytime.
enough said, Beotch lol
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06-16-2012, 08:50 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: New Jersey,
N.J
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
Posts: 3,897
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Not Ranked
There is a distinct difference in sound between SB engines ( even those that are stoked) and BB motors especially to those who have been around these cars along time like me. There just is.
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U.S. Army Rangers. Leading travel agents to Allah.
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06-17-2012, 05:51 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Little Rock area,
AR
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA Street Roadster #782 with 459 cu in FE KC engine, toploader, 3.31
Posts: 4,486
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL 1
There is a distinct difference in sound between SB engines ( even those that are stoked) and BB motors especially to those who have been around these cars along time like me. There just is.
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Well - you all made me have to Goggle it but here is one major reason an FE and a SB will never sound exactly alike.
FE Firing Order 15426378
SB Ford Firing Order 13726548
Depending on the exhaust set up the exhaust pulses are going to create a distinct sound. |
06-17-2012, 06:44 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: New Jersey,
N.J
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
Posts: 3,897
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Not Ranked
In addition the bore sizes are different even where a SB is stroked to a 427. Different sound. End of story.
__________________
U.S. Army Rangers. Leading travel agents to Allah.
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06-17-2012, 07:16 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,078
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL 1
In addition the bore sizes are different even where a SB is stroked to a 427. Different sound. End of story.
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Not the end of story.
A 427SB is not just stroked to 427.
427SB bore=4.125
460SB bore= 4.155
427FE=4.230
If they sound different, it's not just because of bore. Casting density is a larger part of it.
Don't make generalized empirical statements. You obviously never heard a 718HP 427 SB or a 358 680HP SB. Blindfolded, you can't tell the difference among them and an FE, stroked or not.
Sound has little to do with bore size. Other sound experts above not withstanding.
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Chas.
Last edited by ERA Chas; 06-17-2012 at 07:21 AM..
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06-17-2012, 08:26 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 44
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanEC
Well - you all made me have to Goggle it but here is one major reason an FE and a SB will never sound exactly alike.
FE Firing Order 15426378
SB Ford Firing Order 13726548
Depending on the exhaust set up the exhaust pulses are going to create a distinct sound.
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I'm no expert but something tells me this does explain quite a bit! Yes, I'm in the camp that BB and SB do not sound the same.  That's not to say a SB can't sound great! |
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