I'm also pretty sure by "kit" they mean assembled in someone's garage from a pile of parts.
I'm starting to be of the opinion that the term "kit" is becoming generic for any and all Cobras that are not of 60's vintage. Perhaps owners should use the term component car, as Shelby American does, as that might help in defining the new cars.
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Snake
I'm starting to be of the opinion that the term "kit" is becoming generic for any and all Cobras that are not of 60's vintage. Perhaps owners should use the term component car, as Shelby American does, as that might help in defining the new cars.
Lets be clear, since we have this on the table.
"Cobras" are limited to original series, completion series, continuation series, COB, COX and Kirkham Cobras. I refer you to the SAAC Registry which is universally considered the Bible on all things Cobra.
The rest are generically referred to as "Cobras" by Joe public and our hobby community but technically are not legally or otherwise. They are "tribute Cobras" to coin a phrase just used.
The term "Kit" I believe is also dealt with by the Registry and does not include Shelbys either original or continuation.
I don't consider my Shelby a "kit" and never will. I serious doubt many CSX owners would either nor do I see or get the sense that the term "kit" is or is beginning to generically include them. Quite the contrary. I see and get the sense that over the years they have been accepted and considered genuine Cobras.
Disclaimer: This was not started by me so don't go there.
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I don't consider my Shelby a "kit" and never will. I serious doubt many CSX owners would either nor do I see or get the sense that the term "kit" is or is beginning to generically include them. Quite the contrary. I see and get the sense that over the years they have been accepted and considered genuine Cobras.
You may have missed this page in the Registry on component Cobras.
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Snake
You may have missed this page in the Registry on component Cobras.
No, I didn't miss that page. Actually, You (and Rodknock) need to read it carefully.. Especially the first sentence. That part of the page needs to be read in context with the rest of the discussion also.
The Continuation Cobras are copies of the original series. That's self evident. Hence "continuation" Cobras and not originals but genuine Cobras none the less. Thats the bottom line.
Rodneym: was at a car show Fathers day. Didnt bring any car. Just there looking and listening. I think it's fair to say the average Joe does not know a Street Beast "replica" as that term is now used and understood by the public from an original. In my experience most ask "is it Real" because they really don't know and don't know enough to be able to tell the difference. There is usually no nefarious motive. My read on it. They love "Cobras" and want to learn in most cases and I love educating them when I have the chance and the time. To me it's about keeping the interest in these cars alive whether replica or real.
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Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 427 S/C, Twin Paxton 511 FE
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Evan, I'll do you one better...
There's another KMP in my area. My wife saw on Facebook that our son's friend has an uncle with a 'Shelby Cobra'. Hmm, let's see...unfinished aluminum, brushed with polished stripes, tall rollbar with the crossmember, etc. OK, I think I know what I'm dealing with. Cool, maybe I'll get a very local Cobra buddy. Days later I see the kid. "Hey, I saw that your uncle has a Kirkham Cobra! I've got one too!" So he says, "Kir-Kirkwho? He has a REAL Shelby."
Felt like strangling that kid.
No, I didn't miss that page. Actually, You (and Rodknock) need to read it carefully.. Especially the first sentence. That part of the page needs to be read in context with the rest of the discussion also.
The Continuation Cobras are copies of the original series. That's self evident. Hence "continuation" Cobras and not originals but genuine Cobras none the less. Thats the bottom line.
I see cars like the 4000 series and others described as true replicas and Shelby using the term "component" to differentiate his, and to placate the DMV, but I can't find any reference to them being defined as "genuine".
IMO, using the word "real" and/or "genuine", in the Cobra world, with anything other than an original 60's vintage Cobra is a falsehood when answering "the question."
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Snake
I see cars like the 4000 series and others described as true replicas and Shelby using the term "component" to differentiate his, and to placate the DMV, but I can't find any reference to them being defined as "genuine".
IMO, using the word "real" and/or "genuine", in the Cobra world, with anything other than an original 60's vintage Cobra is a falsehood when answering "the question."
While everyone is entitled to their own opinions (and you know what they say about opinions) I prefer to base my position on the working definitions used and accepted by SAAC. You do accept SAAC as the leading authority on all things Cobra don't you and the World Registry the Bible...don't you? Or perhaps only the parts you like?
I can easily see why owners of original cars would ascribe to the notion "if it wasn't built by Shelby in the 60's then it's not real". No axe to grind there.
I refer to the Continuation series as genuine or real Cobras because thats what they are. They are Shelby's and they are Cobras recreated by the original creator. As noted by the Registry while they are not originals they are not "replicas" as that term is understood in popular parlance which is commonly understood now to mean "kit cars" which while looking like a Cobra on the surface are nothing like it in substance underneath. A true "replica" is built to exact if not near exact specs as the original of it's kind and according to the dictionary by the "artist" responsible for the original. CSX3002 is arguably a replica of CSX3001 and so on but that is semantics.
Going beyond the general discussion on the Continuation Series....
and getting to the specificss lets start with the cover of the Registry titled "World Registry of Cobras & GT40s." It isn't titled "and Kits and Replicas". And what do you know I don't see FFRs, ERAs, Contemporaries, Backdrafts and the like in the Registry. Did I miss something?
Now lets go to the working definitions which were created because some car owners like to describe cars 'acting in their own best interests". I'm sure owners of original series are immune from this phenomenon however.
CSX 4000 Cobras are described as "current production Cobras..."
Hmmm, good enough for me.
"Kit car and Replica" is also defined using the now commonly understood use of "replica".
Moving to "Production Figures" we also see production figures for "Component Cobras" (CSX4000 etc.) set forth on the same page as "leaf sprung Cobras" and "Coil Spring Cobras". I don't see any production figures listed for kit cars or "replicas". Again did I miss that?
I can understand why you don't like when I or others refer to the Continuation series are real Cobras. Thats obvious. Doesn't change the fact that they are and have clearly been recogized as Cobras by the leading authority and bible on the subject. Just so happens their postion coincides with 'my opinion' now and as stated years ago before the current Registry was issued. See I was right again.
So when someone asks if my Cobra is "real" I accurately and truthfully answer "yes sure is". I always add that it is a Continuation Series Shebly Cobra. Whether they know what that is is not my problem. If I have time and they ask I happily explain. When that happens it does not seem to phase their amazement with the car either. In fact they seem just as amazed it's a genuine Shelby Cobra.
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Maybe we should approach this question (is it real) from the perspective of the person doing the asking.
I believe that most of these questions (is it real?) come from individuals that have no idea how to differentiate between an original Cobra, continuation cobra, SPF, BDR, CSSX, BFD, LOL, etc. It's my belief that all they want to know is if the cobra they are looking at was built in the 60's. Unless you interpret the question differently than I do, the only truthful answer is NO! (unless it is, in fact, an ORIGINAL one). Anything else is just wishful thinking on your part.
If you want to try and pass off your continuation car, SPF, BDR, Kirkham, BFD, etc., as a real original (built in the 60's) cobra, then you obviously interpret the question differently than I do. Just because Shelby writes something, doesn't make it so. He was attempting to differentiate his kit cars from all the others out there. Thus justifying the price or exclusivity.
Unless it was built in the 60's, it isn't a real original (built in the 60's) cobra. Everything else is just a kit car! Even the originals were kit cars, So what? Get over it!
Just answer the question and drop the indignation.
So when someone asks if my Cobra is "real" I accurately and truthfully answer "yes sure is". I always add that it is a Continuation Series Shebly Cobra. Whether they know what that is is not my problem. If I have time and they ask I happily explain. When that happens it does not seem to phase their amazement with the car either. In fact they seem just as amazed it's a genuine Shelby Cobra.
I am equally amazed that you continue to spew that lame explanation.
As stated so many times before, when a 'civilian' asks if it is 'real' or 'original'...we all know exactly what they mean.
Unless you own a CSX2000 or 3000 car, any answer other than "no..." is a self serving line of BS.
I can easily see why owners of original cars would ascribe to the notion "if it wasn't built by Shelby in the 60's then it's not real". No axe to grind there.
Well not really. All original Cobra chassis were assigned their number by AC Cars Ltd. not SA. About 10% of the 998 Cobras produced never went to Shelby American. They were completed by AC Cars Ltd, with engines shipped to them by Ford, and sold to countries outside the USA.
And yes, owners of original Cobras accept those 10% as REAL, ORIGINAL, and GENUINE.
Going beyond the general discussion on the Continuation Series....
and getting to the specificss lets start with the cover of the Registry titled "World Registry of Cobras & GT40s." It isn't titled "and Kits and Replicas". And what do you know I don't see FFRs, ERAs, Contemporaries, Backdrafts and the like in the Registry. Did I miss something?
I wonder if Kirkham and Shelby Component cars, AC MKIV's, Additional Angliss Production cars etc, being very similar in appearance to original cars, are listed in the Registry in order to lessen the chance of confusion for future buyers of original Cobras? Just a thought...
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