For CSX 2000 and 3000 Series Cobra Owners Eyes Only

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Dimis

REALLY???

Yes, really.

Albert Einstein said INSANITY is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

You may have missed this page in the Registry on component Cobras.

No, I didn't miss that page. Actually, You (and Rodknock) need to read it carefully.. Especially the first sentence. That part of the page needs to be read in context with the rest of the discussion also.

The Continuation Cobras are copies of the original series. That's self evident. Hence "continuation" Cobras and not originals but genuine Cobras none the less. Thats the bottom line.

Rodneym: was at a car show Fathers day. Didnt bring any car. Just there looking and listening. I think it's fair to say the average Joe does not know a Street Beast "replica" as that term is now used and understood by the public from an original. In my experience most ask "is it Real" because they really don't know and don't know enough to be able to tell the difference. There is usually no nefarious motive. My read on it. They love "Cobras" and want to learn in most cases and I love educating them when I have the chance and the time. To me it's about keeping the interest in these cars alive whether replica or real.

[rodneym]

Evan, I'll do you one better...

There's another KMP in my area. My wife saw on Facebook that our son's friend has an uncle with a 'Shelby Cobra'. Hmm, let's see...unfinished aluminum, brushed with polished stripes, tall rollbar with the crossmember, etc. OK, I think I know what I'm dealing with. Cool, maybe I'll get a very local Cobra buddy. Days later I see the kid. "Hey, I saw that your uncle has a Kirkham Cobra! I've got one too!" So he says, "Kir-Kirkwho? He has a REAL Shelby."
Felt like strangling that kid.

[MAStuart]

Mine is no where near done yet . Partly built chassis , plywood buck , some formed and shaped aluminum. I get asked . You building a kit car? How are you going to get the wood out. I tell them I am using the lost buck method. When its done you burn the buck out. When its done I will have to stay cool........and tell them to look at it and study it awhile and if they still have questions we will talk.

Mark

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

No, I didn't miss that page. Actually, You (and Rodknock) need to read it carefully.. Especially the first sentence. That part of the page needs to be read in context with the rest of the discussion also.

The Continuation Cobras are copies of the original series. That's self evident. Hence "continuation" Cobras and not originals but genuine Cobras none the less. Thats the bottom line.

I see cars like the 4000 series and others described as true replicas and Shelby using the term "component" to differentiate his, and to placate the DMV, but I can't find any reference to them being defined as "genuine".

IMO, using the word "real" and/or "genuine", in the Cobra world, with anything other than an original 60's vintage Cobra is a falsehood when answering "the question."

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Yes, really.

Albert Einstein said INSANITY is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Love your work RodKnock, but I always thought Albert was overrated. haha.

So I'll see your Albert Einstein, and raise you William Blake

‘If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise.’

Perhaps persisting with this topic means we are closer to a wiser resolution
Or perhaps not, but I'm having fun munching all that popcorn along the way. Bing... I think I hear the microwave...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Love your work RodKnock, but I always thought Albert was overrated. haha.

So I'll see your Albert Einstein, and raise you William Blake

‘If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise.’

Perhaps persisting with this topic means we are closer to a wiser resolution
Or perhaps not, but I'm having fun munching all that popcorn along the way. Bing... I think I hear the microwave...

I'll ask your question. Really? There's a resolution to this "discussion"?

I'll call and raise you another William, William Shakespeare: "A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I'll ask your question. Really? There's a resolution to this "discussion"?

I'll call and raise you another William, William Shakespeare: "A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."

Very good Sir...

Perhaps I'm alone in thinking there is... though at the same time, I know not what it is. I can't help but feel that a possible resolution may lie with one finding solace in their cobra. Simply "It is, what it is."

So when the question that shall not be repeated is asked, one can answer simply and politely, without fear of being judged by those asking the question.

I can't understand why the question agitates so

What say you when you are asked?

[Jamo]

...and so it goes.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

I see cars like the 4000 series and others described as true replicas and Shelby using the term "component" to differentiate his, and to placate the DMV, but I can't find any reference to them being defined as "genuine".

IMO, using the word "real" and/or "genuine", in the Cobra world, with anything other than an original 60's vintage Cobra is a falsehood when answering "the question."

While everyone is entitled to their own opinions (and you know what they say about opinions) I prefer to base my position on the working definitions used and accepted by SAAC. You do accept SAAC as the leading authority on all things Cobra don't you and the World Registry the Bible...don't you? Or perhaps only the parts you like?

I can easily see why owners of original cars would ascribe to the notion "if it wasn't built by Shelby in the 60's then it's not real". No axe to grind there.

I refer to the Continuation series as genuine or real Cobras because thats what they are. They are Shelby's and they are Cobras recreated by the original creator. As noted by the Registry while they are not originals they are not "replicas" as that term is understood in popular parlance which is commonly understood now to mean "kit cars" which while looking like a Cobra on the surface are nothing like it in substance underneath. A true "replica" is built to exact if not near exact specs as the original of it's kind and according to the dictionary by the "artist" responsible for the original. CSX3002 is arguably a replica of CSX3001 and so on but that is semantics.

Going beyond the general discussion on the Continuation Series....
and getting to the specificss lets start with the cover of the Registry titled "World Registry of Cobras & GT40s." It isn't titled "and Kits and Replicas". And what do you know I don't see FFRs, ERAs, Contemporaries, Backdrafts and the like in the Registry. Did I miss something?

Now lets go to the working definitions which were created because some car owners like to describe cars 'acting in their own best interests". I'm sure owners of original series are immune from this phenomenon however.

CSX 4000 Cobras are described as "current production Cobras..."
Hmmm, good enough for me.

"Kit car and Replica" is also defined using the now commonly understood use of "replica".

Moving to "Production Figures" we also see production figures for "Component Cobras" (CSX4000 etc.) set forth on the same page as "leaf sprung Cobras" and "Coil Spring Cobras". I don't see any production figures listed for kit cars or "replicas". Again did I miss that?

I can understand why you don't like when I or others refer to the Continuation series are real Cobras. Thats obvious. Doesn't change the fact that they are and have clearly been recogized as Cobras by the leading authority and bible on the subject. Just so happens their postion coincides with 'my opinion' now and as stated years ago before the current Registry was issued. See I was right again.

So when someone asks if my Cobra is "real" I accurately and truthfully answer "yes sure is". I always add that it is a Continuation Series Shebly Cobra. Whether they know what that is is not my problem. If I have time and they ask I happily explain. When that happens it does not seem to phase their amazement with the car either. In fact they seem just as amazed it's a genuine Shelby Cobra.

[601HP]

There's a lot of word-smithing goin' on in this thread. Grey Poupon has spilled all over the thread.

When I'm asked THE question, I typically answer "...no. I've enjoyed building this replica as close to original specs as I can."

David

[jhv48]

Maybe we should approach this question (is it real) from the perspective of the person doing the asking.

I believe that most of these questions (is it real?) come from individuals that have no idea how to differentiate between an original Cobra, continuation cobra, SPF, BDR, CSSX, BFD, LOL, etc. It's my belief that all they want to know is if the cobra they are looking at was built in the 60's. Unless you interpret the question differently than I do, the only truthful answer is NO! (unless it is, in fact, an ORIGINAL one). Anything else is just wishful thinking on your part.

If you want to try and pass off your continuation car, SPF, BDR, Kirkham, BFD, etc., as a real original (built in the 60's) cobra, then you obviously interpret the question differently than I do. Just because Shelby writes something, doesn't make it so. He was attempting to differentiate his kit cars from all the others out there. Thus justifying the price or exclusivity.

Unless it was built in the 60's, it isn't a real original (built in the 60's) cobra. Everything else is just a kit car! Even the originals were kit cars, So what? Get over it!

Just answer the question and drop the indignation.

[patrickt]

I have a better idea. Since there are clearly more replica owners than owners of originals, I say we just "take over." We have more combined people, more combined resources, and more combined money. With that, we can pretty much do what we damn well please. We just steamroll over the original guys, and with them out of the way, we just declare our cars to be whatever we want them to be. It's easier than you think.

[LMH]

lol!
Larry

[jhv48]

Or we could just say "yes, it's an original continuation of a kit car!"

That ought to flummox them.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by LMH

lol!
Larry

The point being, I could buy the trademarks, stack the SAAC board and push through any resolution I wanted, muscle a declaration that "continuation cars" are henceforth to be referred to only as "fake-o cars," and that ERAs and StreetBeasts are the only true Cobras on the face of the earth, regardless of when they were built. Even doing that, it would still not change reality. And it is arguable that that sort of conduct has occurred in the past.

[dallas_]

Originally Posted by patrickt

The point being, I could buy the trademarks, stack the SAAC board and push through any resolution I wanted,

Well, it is the SHELBY American Automotive Club is it not?

Why wouldn't they promote the brand in their best interests?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by dallas_

Well, it is the SHELBY American Automotive Club is it not?

Why wouldn't they promote the brand in their best interests?

... and I'll include FFRs in the ERA/StreetBeast resolution if you can get the rest of the Factory Five mob to climb on board with us. I'll throw a little cash your kids' way too....

[dallas_]

Well.... based on these descriptions I may not even have a replica.

I kind of took the approach of another friend of mine:

"I'm basing it on a collective interpretation of these particular cars. And whatever the hell I like".

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

So when someone asks if my Cobra is "real" I accurately and truthfully answer "yes sure is". I always add that it is a Continuation Series Shebly Cobra. Whether they know what that is is not my problem. If I have time and they ask I happily explain. When that happens it does not seem to phase their amazement with the car either. In fact they seem just as amazed it's a genuine Shelby Cobra.

I am equally amazed that you continue to spew that lame explanation.

As stated so many times before, when a 'civilian' asks if it is 'real' or 'original'...we all know exactly what they mean.

Unless you own a CSX2000 or 3000 car, any answer other than "no..." is a self serving line of BS.