Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[REAL 1]

Dearest: PaulF: my sincerest apologies with regard to my misdirected plate moniker comment. I confused you with the multitudes of others with such plates. They kow who they are.

As to the rest, what can I say except carry on. Alas they are beyond help either due to inability to comprehend the point that even the newbie understands or as a result of furthering their own purpose. They still scurry to undercut the facts, the law (by miss citing trade dress decisions) and logical rational explanation as to the undeniable ultimate fact. The World Registry concurs also agreeing with the facts and law as it must necessarily do. One cannot read selected snippets of the Registry taken out of context as misleadingly done by others here. All those innocents reading are urged to read the cited pages I set forth for themselves so as not to be misdirected in their understanding.

The only one that has finally acknowledged the simple truth and fact has been PaulF. Thank you sir. You have acknowledged and recognized the simple and obvious fact that has and will apparently forever escape the others. They are beyond help as noted. But if I have helped just one my efforts were worthwhile here.

Time for me to avoid squandering precious and billable time on those that can't be helped.

Adieu my lost friends. See you on other threads.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Time for me to avoid squandering precious and billable time on those that can't be helped.

Promise?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Time for me to avoid squandering precious and billable time on those that can't be helped.

Adieu my lost friends. See you on other threads.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

My my. You guys are still trying to establish the current production Shelby Cobras are nothing more than mere replica Cobras such as what you own. Keep at it, maybe you guys really can change the facts if you try hard enough and inveigh strongly enough.

I'll check back in a few days to see if you guys have progressed any further.

My, my. You gotta love someone who decides to say goodbye to a thread only to comeback a day or two later. There's a man of his word. Must be a slow day at the office.

As the Registry states, your CSX is very Cobra-like. And as you stated many times, your car is a "true replica."

Did you decide to change your mind now? Are you "walking it back", like the "wheat and chaff" insult to the non-CSX replica owners?

Your CSX was put together just like almost all of us here, in the form of a kit. Buy a chassis & body, using nothing remotely like the materials used in the 1960's, and then add an engine and transmission by a local shop (HRE in yoiur case). Then go pass an state inspection and register it. We've all done the same process.

The only difference is you got a badge from a successor company to the original Shelby American, three or four decades later. Sure, Evan, whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy at night.

As a Kirkham owner, I'll take solace in the fact that the $60,000 alloy roller Shelby replica-premium nearly disappears entirely when the cars are sold as a completed used vehicle.

[Xack]

Mr. Real1, I'm happy for you that you have a real Cobra. You just need everyone to acknowledge you. Congratulations! Ok, the watch, I'm not sure how to answer that because first, its going to be a niche market for Rolex kit buyers in the first place, and I think its ridiculous. But, to your point its a copy. I don't get too excited by determining copies of Rolexes, I'm not in the market. Neither are most on this site in the market for a vintage or continuation Shelby Cobra. I'm not confused if mine is or is not because I'm not going to own one. I do not care if you have a real or copy, neither does anyone else. Now the answer to my question for you is mute. For one you have to be able to fit in a "real" Cobra. You have to be short. Get over it. Nobody really cares if you are tall or short, and you can never compensate by over doing it elsewhere.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Xack

Mr. Real1, I'm happy for you that you have a real Cobra. You just need everyone to acknowledge you. Congratulations! Ok, the watch, I'm not sure how to answer that because first, its going to be a niche market for Rolex kit buyers in the first place, and I think its ridiculous. But, to your point its a copy. I don't get too excited by determining copies of Rolexes, I'm not in the market. Neither are most on this site in the market for a vintage or continuation Shelby Cobra. I'm not confused if mine is or is not because I'm not going to own one. I do not care if you have a real or copy, neither does anyone else. Now the answer to my question for you is mute. For one you have to be able to fit in a "real" Cobra. You have to be short. Get over it. Nobody really cares if you are tall or short, and you can never compensate by over doing it elsewhere.

Correct answer: If it comes from and sold by Rolex its a Rolex regardless of completeness on sale. Self evident.

[buddyg]

The is really pointless because Evan will never change his mind. What I find comical is Evan always points to the SAAC registry to justify his position, but now has decided if they change things he won't care what they say. LOL

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by buddyg

The is really pointless because Evan will never change his mind. What I find comical is Evan always points to the SAAC registry to justify his position, but now has decided if they change things he won't care what they say. LOL

No, actually you are incorrect in what I said. I don't point to the Registry as "justification". No, no. I am pointing to the Registry to highlight that they agree with me and I happen to think they are correct in their analysis. I called it long before the 40th Edition Registry came out and long before you and many others were active here. Factually and legally the basic facts are undeniable. The car is a Shelby Cobra.

Cheers.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by 4pipes

It doesn't matter what Evan says. The market price of the cars define what the cognizenty already know. Real Cobras sell for somewhere north of $700k. Aluminum continuation cars sell for about $19-$20k more than Kirkhams they're built on. There, isn't that the elephant in the room? People will pay a little more for a Kirkham if it came from Shelby and has a CSX number. Doesn't make them original cars, just a little more desirable.

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

And the BJ auction in Vegas is confirming that. I'll update my summary tomorrow as the last car crosses the block tonight.

What were the Barrett-Jackson auction results?

[REAL 1]

I'm pissed. I just noticed that the side badge on my Cobra says "Shelby 427 S/C" and my chassis identification says "Shelby American Inc." and my dash plaque from the Shelby American attached to the car says "Shelby Cobra".

I've been duped now that you guys have explained I don't really have a Shelby Cobra.

Does anyone know a good lawyer? I've been had.




BTW Shelby aluminum roller sells for quite a bit more than Kirkhams and incorporate different suspension. Last I checked a Shelby alloy roller is about 1 to 1 1/2 years out and costs $160K for the just the roller. The 50th anniversary aluminum rollers sold I believer for $180K.

Kirkham rollers are $99K last I checked. Shelby Glass rollers are still $20K to $30k more.

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I'm pissed. I just noticed that the side badge on my Cobra says "Shelby 427 S/C" and my chassis identification says "Shelby American Inc." and my dash plaque from the Shelby American attached to the car says "Shelby Cobra".

I've been duped now that you guys have explained I don't really have a Shelby Cobra.

Does anyone know a good lawyer? I've been had.

Dearest Evan,

Hmmm, mine says the same thing. I got them on ebay for about $10 per badge/plaque. Total investment, $40. Then I bought a $25k Cobra. I pay a few bucks for insurance and I drive it every chance I get. If I wreck it or it get's stolen, I won't give it a second thought. I'll just go get another one. You see, its just a car.

Best Regards,
Paul F

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Paul F

Dearest Evan,

Hmmm, mine says the same thing. I got them on ebay for about $10 per badge/plaque. Total investment, $40. Then I bought a $25k Cobra. I pay a few bucks for insurance and I drive it every chance I get. If I wreck it or it get's stolen, I won't give it a second thought. I'll just go get another one. You see, its just a car.

Best Regards,
Paul F

My dear Paul: I have not the slightest doubt your badging says the same as mine. None. However, the crucial difference is mine came from SAI badged that way. I didn't have to put them on.

Yes, they are just cars I agree with your astute observation. Drove mine yesterday and enjoyed every minute of it. Have almost 8200 miles on it. Have it insured for replacement value at $240K so if it gets crunched I can get another Shelby.

Too bad you don't live local. Would be happy to go on a cruise with you.

Going a FFR cruise soon with a club.

Cheers.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I'm pissed. I just noticed that the side badge on my Cobra says "Shelby 427 S/C" and my chassis identification says "Shelby American Inc." and my dash plaque from the Shelby American attached to the car says "Shelby Cobra".

I've been duped now that you guys have explained I don't really have a Shelby Cobra.

Does anyone know a good lawyer? I've been had.




BTW Shelby aluminum roller sells for quite a bit more than Kirkhams and incorporate different suspension. Last I checked a Shelby alloy roller is about 1 to 1 1/2 years out and costs $160K for the just the roller. The 50th anniversary aluminum rollers sold I believer for $180K.

Kirkham rollers are $99K last I checked. Shelby Glass rollers are still $20K to $30k more.

I can't speak for the cheaper Shelby alloy replica, but the 50th Anniversary Shelby is ALL Kirkham per a posting by David K. Please don't pass along bad information to the public.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

... As a Kirkham owner, I'll take solace in the fact that the $60,000 alloy roller Shelby replica-premium nearly disappears entirely when the cars are sold as a completed used vehicle.

Not to mention -

Originally Posted by RodKnock

... the 50th Anniversary Shelby is ALL Kirkham per a posting by David K. ...

SAI went top shelf for that commemorative edition (as well they should). By the way nice bust here -

Originally Posted by REAL 1

... BTW Shelby aluminum roller sells for quite a bit more than Kirkhams and incorporate different suspension. Last I checked a Shelby alloy roller is about 1 to 1 1/2 years out and costs $160K for the just the roller. The 50th anniversary aluminum rollers sold I believer for $180K.

Kirkham rollers are $99K last I checked. Shelby Glass rollers are still $20K to $30k more.

Originally Posted by RodKnock

... Please don't pass along bad information to the public.

Just Evan doing what Evan does best, to mislead at every opportunity, the man is nothing if not consistent

[NewYorkGuy]

Did cobra guys talk smack to Carroll Shelby's face when he was alive? Real, replica, Mexico, South Africa, Poland, backshed... All these Cobras exist for one reason. $$$$ there is big profit massaging car egos

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

BTW Shelby aluminum roller sells for quite a bit more than Kirkhams and incorporate different suspension. Last I checked a Shelby alloy roller is about 1 to 1 1/2 years out and costs $160K for the just the roller. The 50th anniversary aluminum rollers sold I believer for $180K.

Kirkham rollers are $99K last I checked. Shelby Glass rollers are still $20K to $30k more.

All true, but I believe "4pipes" was referring to completed used Shelbys and Kirkhams and I agree. eBay and CobraCountry have shown the difference between the asking prices of the two alloy cars to be roughly 20,000. That margin of the alloy rollers appears to dissipate when the two cars are sold used.

[Xack]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I'm pissed. I just noticed that the side badge on my Cobra says "Shelby 427 S/C" and my chassis identification says "Shelby American Inc." and my dash plaque from the Shelby American attached to the car says "Shelby Cobra".

I've been duped now that you guys have explained I don't really have a Shelby Cobra.

Does anyone know a good lawyer? I've been had.




BTW Shelby aluminum roller sells for quite a bit more than Kirkhams and incorporate different suspension. Last I checked a Shelby alloy roller is about 1 to 1 1/2 years out and costs $160K for the just the roller. The 50th anniversary aluminum rollers sold I believer for $180K.

Kirkham rollers are $99K last I checked. Shelby Glass rollers are still $20K to $30k more.

Mr. Real1, Just because it costs more does not make it worth more. If you want to justify what you paid, good luck. Nobody here owns that responsibility to you. Channel your inner P.T. Barnum. Feel good about what you paid for it and be OK with it. Please do not feel the need to enforce that on everyone else. Go drive your very expensive car and just feel good. That's what its all about.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Xack

Mr. Real1, Just because it costs more does not make it worth more. If you want to justify what you paid, good luck. Nobody here owns that responsibility to you. Channel your inner P.T. Barnum. Feel good about what you paid for it and be OK with it. Please do not feel the need to enforce that on everyone else. Go drive your very expensive car and just feel good. That's what its all about.

Well, no matter what you think, the evidence is clear that Shelby cars sell for more than the others. But of course you will subscribe to the conspiracy theory that all of the Barrett Jackson auctions are rigged.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Well, no matter what you think, the evidence is clear that Shelby cars sell for more than the others. But of course you will subscribe to the conspiracy theory that all of the Barrett Jackson auctions are rigged.

Yes, Shelby Cobra replicas are worth more than other replicas. Why? Well, they cost more.

As "4pipes" said, the difference in the used car market is negligible between Shelby and Kirkham, certainly NOT the $60K roller difference and the Shelby gets painted.

They're just asking prices, but there are a couple Kirkhams listed on eBay right now asking $170,000 and $190,000. And you regularly see CSX's for sale new or nearly new for $175,000-$200,000 (ish). But here's a sold alloy CSX, which was asking $150,000.

"Shelby 427SC Cobra, CSX4334, (California VIN#CSX4334). Shelby aluminum coachwork finished in Guardsman blue. The BIG Picture: Click Here! Registered under the coveted “SB100” [California Senate Bill 100]—that means no smog certification, no California registration hassles for the life of the car! BIG closeup of its highly-coveted California SB100 sticker: Click Here! Under the hood: original Ford cast-iron 427FE side-oiler V8, stroked with a modified Ford 428FE crank [to 484 cid]. BIG Photo of powerplant: Click Here! Keith Black pistons, Edelbrock aluminum heads [9.8:1 compression... thus this rocket-thruster thrives on premium pump gas] & intake manifold with Holley 750 cfm carburetor & turkey pan, MSD ignition ensemble. In-Your-Face frontal shot: Click Here! The engine [built by 427FE master builder Southern Automotive], is mated to a 4-speed Ford/NASCAR large-spline toploader transmission. Another BIG 3/4-frontal shot (driver side): Click Here! The chassis is the traditional Shelby 4" main frame and four corner, coil-over suspension, rack & pinion steering, and Shelby 4-wheel disc brakes. BIG broadside shot#1 (driver side): Click Here! Rolling stock: polished 15” Trigo Halibrand-style pin-drive knockoff wheels shod with Goodyear Eagle period-correct rubber. BIG Photo of cockpit#1: Click Here! In the (Legend-correct) cockpit: original-style 15" steering wheel [BIG closeup of Moto-Lita wheel & dashboard#1: Click Here!], Shelby American blackfaced gauges; BIG closeup of Shelby American gauges: Click Here!], Legend-correct pedals, leather upholstery, Raydyot mirrors and windwings. BIG closeup of Moto-Lita wheel & dashboard#2: Click Here! Safety features include: Simpson 4-point shoulder harnesses and driver’s-side padded rollbar. BIG Photo of cockpit#2: Click Here! You also get: a canvas waterproof top, Cobra car cover, Shelby MSO, and a visor signed by Carroll Shelby [Carroll Shelby’s autograph on the visor: Click Here!]. 3,325 miles [5,351 km]. Never raced, tracked or otherwise abused, always garaged. BIG 3/4-rearview shot (passenger side): Click Here! $150,000 obo. Contact Joe at 650-796-xxxx
BIG closeup of Shelby dash plaque: Click Here!
BIG broadside shot#2 (driver side): Click Here!
Palo Alto (S.F. bay area), California
24 July
11 August 2015: You can mark my (all-aluminium) Guardsman Blue Shelby CSX4334 Cobra SOLD! It's now on The London Express headed for France! And you can tell Curt that I received the deposit within 24 hours after my ad went up on your site. I received other serious responses from all over, including one from Switzerland. My Cobra sold sight-unseen except for your site's spectacularly effective photography tips. Curt advised me that my nice Nikon D7100 would pay for itself with this one photo-shoot, and he was absolutely correct. You can color me (and the buyer) a happy camper! Best regards, Joe Barta"

According to Evan his Shelby Cobra replica is worth $240,000, to him and his insurance company. But Evan's CSX4206 is supposedly one of the most detailed CSX's on Earth, so his car deserves a premium over other CSX's.

4pipes point and mine, the CSX plaque may be worth $20K +/-.

[Paul F]

Dearest Evan,

It brings great joy to me on this fine day that you and I are in full agreement that your most-excellent car is indeed a 100% genuine Shelby American Cobra.

I agree that no one who is knowledgeable in the field of Cobras would be misled in regards to your fine automobile's lineage. They would understand the distinction between the CSX4xxx and CSX3xxx series. However, a person not knowledgeable in the field of Cobras would misconstrue a license plate or a statement that said it is a real one. While such a statement may be true in one context, it is misleading in the context of the question being asked.

Of course, your ClubCobra moniker also brings one to engage you in conversation on these points.

As to bitterness, quite the contrary. I am always pleased to see that there are those that have the where-with-all to spend money on such luxury items. Of particular delight is to see a Cobra crammed with a cammer. Then there is the unique case of the million dollar billet Kirkham. Wonderful stuff.

My real interest is a 1959-1961 Corvette. But alas, I have five friends with that very car. Their concerns of damage and other concerns are at such a level that they do not drive their cars. I felt that I would be no different. I wanted a car I would drive, not look at. So I bought a cheap Cobra so that I would have no concerns in this regard. To date, that has been the case.

Kindest Regards,
Paul F

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Paul F

Dearest Evan,

It brings great joy to me on this fine day that you and I are in full agreement that your most-excellent car is indeed a 100% genuine Shelby American Cobra.

I agree that no one who is knowledgeable in the field of Cobras would be misled in regards to your fine automobile's lineage. They would understand the distinction between the CSX4xxx and CSX3xxx series. However, a person not knowledgeable in the field of Cobras would misconstrue a license plate or a statement that said it is a real one. While such a statement may be true in one context, it is misleading in the context of the question being asked.

Of course, your ClubCobra moniker also brings one to engage you in conversation on these points.

As to bitterness, quite the contrary. I am always pleased to see that there are those that have the where-with-all to spend money on such luxury items. Of particular delight is to see a Cobra crammed with a cammer. Then there is the unique case of the million dollar billet Kirkham. Wonderful stuff.

My real interest is a 1959-1961 Corvette. But alas, I have five friends with that very car. Their concerns of damage and other concerns are at such a level that they do not drive their cars. I felt that I would be no different. I wanted a car I would drive, not look at. So I bought a cheap Cobra so that I would have no concerns in this regard. To date, that has been the case.

Kindest Regards,
Paul F

Paul: Your consideration and acknowledgment is most appreciated. Thank you for acknowledging my car is indeed a 100% genuine Shelby Cobra.

Yes, some may construe my plate (REAL 427) as intimating my car is of original origin but the word "Continuation" wouldn't fit when I applied for vanity plates. But my plate does factually truthfully state what the car is and in fact what my engine is, which is a genuine '65 427 SO. While it is hard to explain the distinction between original and Continuation while behind the wheel while the car is in motion to other motorists who are behind me, nevertheless when inquires are made while the car is stopped I do make clear it is a Continuation Series Cobra whenever possible. I am proud of the Continuation series moniker and have no need to pretend it is an original. I love my car.

While my plate moniker may confuse other motorists as what generation my Shelby belongs to, your plate moniker in fact totally misleads them as to what your car in fact is. Your plate moniker could clearly be argued as far more objectionable I'm afraid than my plate moniker which is truthful and accurate and merely requires a simple clarification when asked. Your assertion is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black except in this case the kettle isn't black but the pot is. But, alas I agree, its all in fun so no real harm no real foul. Just make a simple observation.

Your desire for what I'll say is an "inexpensive" car (as opposed to "cheap" car as you said) for fear that there are those here that like to take things I say out of context is completely understandable and reasonable. This apparently is your criteria and based on that criteria makes your car "better" for you, does it not? I too worry from time to time about driving very expensive vehicles and also worry about the little old lady in the Buick. Absolutely.

Important part is to respect others and what they own and promote the hobby and the Cobra as it is in jeopardy of being lost to future generations based on waning interest of the upcoming generations.