Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Joe, unfortunately, you couldn't register it here in CA as a 1965 Shelby Cobra, unless you were committing fraud ...

Oh well, what's on the license plate is more important, can't beat the visibility

[Blue66]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

I think I'll by a wrecked & gutted csx4000, bang it out with a sledge, put in a tractor motor with 3-speed column shift, then move to Hollywood with my registered "1965 Shelby Cobra" with "Replica" stamped in the comments block

Prob will be better than what ya have now .

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Blue66

Prob will be better than what ya have now .

It's not important what I have, it's more important what others think I have, or what I can make them think I have

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Blue66

Prob will be better than what ya have now .

I didn't think ownership or having a running Cobra-like vehicle was a requirement around here. If it is, then can we get rid of subway-riding, Petco-shopping, kitty-litter-bag-dragging NYG and his Nissan Leaf?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I didn't think ownership or having a running Cobra-like vehicle was a requirement around here. If it is, then can we get rid of subway-riding, Petco-shopping, kitty-litter-bag-dragging NYG and his Nissan Leaf?

No, remember that we all voted and chose to become a more inclusive and welcoming club. It's the right thing to do.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

No, remember that we all voted and chose to become a more inclusive and welcoming club. It's the right thing to do.

Bummer! Because BEIGE-painted Cobras were next on my exclusionary list.

[Blue66]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I didn't think ownership or having a running Cobra-like vehicle was a requirement around here. If it is, then can we get rid of subway-riding, Petco-shopping, kitty-litter-bag-dragging NYG and his Nissan Leaf?

Come on Francis lighten up. He has been hitting the bees nest for 20+ pages. Get some thicker skin

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I think I understand now. Today you can buy a "Camaro-like" vehicle. Camaros have not been in continuous production since the 1960s. It is not really the same company after the government took it over and gave it to the union employees. It is certainly not built by the same employees with the same materials, the warranty is different, the recommended service schedule is not the same, and it is certainly not the 1960s anymore. Yet these cars do somewhat replicate the look of the Camaros of the 1960s.

I cannot believe the current incarnation of Chevy calls their cars Camaros instead of labeling a more correct term like "real Chevy Camaro-ish replica thingy".

And don't even think about starting a discussion about the new so-called Dodge Dart or VW Beetle.

The main difference here is that the new Camaro (insert Challenger, Beetle...) is a completely new, modern vehicle that harkens back to the original version with styling cues and a somewhat, roughly similar family shape. Different dimensions, newer materials, current technology, safety features and emissions certification separate it from it's ancestor by a country mile. Its a current model that is tangibly different and distinct from the original. GM could, for the sake of argument, add some trim and power train upgrades and designate a model variant as a 2016 Yenko Camaro.

If Chevy were to build a car today that replicates a 1969 Yenko Camaro in every essential way - same size, shape, bumpers, suspension, power train, etc., it would not be a 2016 Yenko Camaro. It would be a replica of a 1969 Yenko Camaro, built and sold by Chevy in 2016 as either a component vehicle less power train, or an unregisterable turnkey racer, collector or show queen.

If John Wayne's great grandson today is given the name John Wayne; and if the original man's DNA is used today to birth a clone and given the same name - same thing applies - both could legally be called John Wayne. One might have a family resemblance and one would look exactly like him, but neither of them could sign his autographs and rightfully claim to be be the REal thing.

Replace John Wayne with Elvis in the same example above. Get both new Elvises gussied up in white jumpsuits and rhinestones and they'd both be Elvis impersonators like all the others out there. Possibly with a bit more cachet to some people for actually being related - but impersonators nonetheless!

[Blue66]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

it's more important what others think I have, or what I can make them think I have

Ohhh ok.. So you DO want to keep up with the Jones I knew it !!

[RodKnock]

The issue of whether or not the modern CSX is a replica is a settled matter. It is, and I'll quote Evan from another thread:

"I agree. It's a technically a true replica of the original Series Cobra. No argument. See Websters."


How do you handle the questions?

However, where Evan goes "off the reservation" is when he says his car is a REAL or GENUINE Shelby Cobra. Unfortunately, there are only 998 of those.

Anyway, if his car is a replica, which he readily admits, then how in the world can it be genuine? The logic is mind-bending.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Is the new Camaro, with air bags, impact protection, all emissions equipment, plastic everywhere, side impact beams, etc., etc. a clone of the 1967-1968, 1969, the 1970's version(s), the 1980's, 1990's, the 2000's version? I can't tell. Side by side, do they really look like twins? Seriously? Nope.

"Somewhat replicate?" 2015 Camaro versus 1967 Camaro? Shelby Cobra versus Shelby Cobra replica?

The original 1967 came with a warranty and you could drive off the lot, just like today for the 2015 Camaro. Can you drive off the lot of a Shelby dealer with the car registered, drivable and with a warranty? Nope.

Will the new Camaro ever be confused with the original? Really? Say like an original 1960's Shelby Cobra that's value could be in the millions being confused with a CSX4000/6000? Nope.

And GM never stopped producing cars, but went through a restructuring. Still the same company. If they revive the Pontiac division and start to build a new GTO, then do you think it will ever be confused with the old Goat? Come on, really?

There are only 998 original Shelby Cobras and the person in charge of keeping their history, is on record as saying the modern Shelby Cobra replica is a REPLICA. And the registry references it as a "true replica" and "Cobra-like." I didn't make up those terms nor are they taken out of context.

Just a point of interest. While there are 998 original series Cobras there are only about 250 aluminum body continuation Cobras. Much rarer in fact than the originals at this time.

Further, I get and have received many many PMs from Contiuation Shelby owners and to a man they all agree with my position and what I have said on this cite on this issue but they recognize any discourse with owners here of "non" Shelby cars on this issue is a complete waste of time. They are correct on that and do not want to be the subject of personal attacks by the more petty and nasty here.

One of the nastier new arrivals here now apparently is smearing Continuation owners wiht the notion that acquiring a Shelby is more about showing others what you have. He is also apparently an expert on all issues Cobra but a psychoanalyst too.

While I can't speak for others on this count I believe most were motivated, like myself to acquire a Shelby as it was a chance to own a genuine Shelby Cobra at a price that was feasible to me at the time and allowed me to acquire a car I dreamed about as a kid. It was for me and no one else.

While it is true that I do have a plate that says REAL427 this is a plate that expresses the pride in my car. Unlike the Shelby detractors my plate is at least attached to a genuine Shelby Cobra while many of the Shelby detractors here that have also peronally attacked me for merely setting for the the facts and law have analogous plates affixed to cars that are in fact and law not Cobras to any degree except for mimicking the shape of a Shelby Cobra. Hypotrical in the extreme.

Classic Club Cobra. Just like the old days.

Hey, you guys sleep tight.

Flame on!

Facts, law, Registry.

[jhv48]

Didn't take long, did it?

[Joe's Garage]

WOW! I don't think I've had a hit like that from a bottom feeder ever.
For those interested, I twitch the wrist every 1/2 second or so to make the lure skip on the bottom.

By the way Evan, nice try but this has been about you and only you

Originally Posted by Blue66

CSX car here to. We are so evil

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Most of you guys are A-OK in my book
I only know of one that needed a spanking, consider CC a group that advocates self-discipline though tough love

[Joe's Garage]

Here's a post that speaks volumes eh?

Originally Posted by csx4910

As someone who loves not only my "replica csx4000" as well as all other cobras, please don't lump all of us into the same category as Evan. I don't think my CSX is any better or any worse than Kirkham, SPF, ERA, Etc. I fell in love with the Cobra as a kid and frankly can appreciate anyone's car that put their hard work into building or buying done, I prefer to enjoy the beauty of all of them
Ron

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Just a point of interest. While there are 998 original series Cobras there are only about 250 aluminum body continuation Cobras. Much rarer in fact than the originals at this time.

Uh, what's your point? They'll never be more valuable than the original 998. They're still producing them. It's just a matter of time and people to fork over the bucks. And I'm sure there will be bunch more with the 3000 Resurrection (Competition) Series and the 50th Anniversary editions.

In the used Cobra market, the premium between a CSX replica and the Kirkham ain't much. And there shouldn't be, because only a plaque and some badges separate us.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Further, I get and have received many many PMs from Contiuation Shelby owners and to a man they all agree with my position and what I have said on this cite on this issue but they recognize any discourse with owners here of "non" Shelby cars on this issue is a complete waste of time. They are correct on that and do not want to be the subject of personal attacks by the more petty and nasty here.

And what's your point here? Are we tallying votes or something? Do you think the preponderance of votes would support that Shelby replicas are indeed genuine or real Shelby Cobras? Do you think others here don't feel the same way I do? They do. Did you see a bunch of folks "like" posts of mine and others with a like-minded view that modern Shelbys are replicas and cannot be genuine? Should I be surprised that your fellow Shelby Cobra replica owners support your position? I'm not.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

While it is true that I do have a plate that says REAL427 this is a plate that expresses the pride in my car.

Your plate states "REAL" because you believe it's a real Shelby Cobra and maybe you want others to think it's "real' as well. I don't know. What I do know is that your Shelby Cobra is a replica and thus cannot be genuine or real.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Facts, law, Registry.

Facts (cannot be both a replica and genuine), SAAC Cobra Registrar & Historian and other SAAC Board members, Registry ("Cobra-like", "component car", "true replica").

Lastly, as for "Registry", I think your hold on to that area of support is tenuous at best. The SAAC Cobra Registrar is on record as stating that he thought there was an agreement to remove all the replicas from the Registry and have SAAC only handle the original 1960's cars. We'll see what happens in the next edition of the Registry. Positions can change over time.

[Joe's Garage]

RodKnock just savor the moment.

We have replicas of the originals being compared to those originals (built 50 years earlier), and these replicas are "more rare" than the originals they copy because the on-going production total is less at this time.

Seriously folks, you can't make this sh!t up!

BTW, who knows roughly how many of the original 998 are actually left (still in existence)?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

RodKnock just savor the moment.

Seriously, I'm not trying to savor any moment, if there is one to be savored.

I'm trying to understand the logic. When something is cloned, 30, 40, 50 years later, and it's not really an exact clone either (e.g., the Kirkham alloy bodies are thicker than the original 998, original 1960's magnesium Halibrands, exhaust, headers, many have wrong engines and transmissions, suspension, brakes, differentials, paint, assembly, etc.), how can it be genuine?

What do you think the % of votes would be amongst the owners of the original 998, if they took a vote regarding the modern Shelby replicas being genuine? What about a vote amongst us non-Shelby replica owners, how would that turn out?

[Paul F]

What happened to the watches and pens? I was learning something and appreciating some nice pieces.

[Jamo]

Funny you should ask. After reading the last few pages and the comings and goings of Evan and his play buddies...

THIS is a DOXA. For readers of Clive Cussler's books, this (actually a orange-faced regular dive model) is what Dirk Pitt wore. It is a serious dive watch like the Seiko mechanical models of the era.

Tough...like beat zombies to death tough. This is a three time zone model. I actually find it very useful for my duties here...I can keep track of when the Aussie rascals and the East Coast folks are awake and bantering about.

Very difficult to find these...more likely a serious dive or commercial fishing shop rather than a jewelry store. My wife went on the hunt...online with major watch retailers, etc. folks knew about them but didn't know where to get one. Finally, she just flat called DOXA in Switzerland and had one shipped in for our 30th. I've had this thing for a dozen years and beat it to hell and not once has it had a problem.

[Jamo]

A little more Cobra-oriented.

About a year after I got the tin can, one of the toggle switches needed replacing. So I'm trying to loosen the outer ring, but it's on tight. Grabbed the needle nose and was about to insert it's prongs into the little indents and all I could think of was slipping and ripping the leather on the dash.

Figured I'd call Da Boys in Provo and see if there was some special tool I needed to get. Tom Jr. answers the phone and I ask him. He changes the subject and we just start talking about stuff...he's asking me how the car's doing and we're talking about the next Spring Fling...about 10 minutes of this ( I hear machine shop-type noises in the background) and he say's he shipping me something he just made while we were on the phone that'll take care of my issues with the switch's outer ring.

A few days later...this arrives. Only had to use it the one time, but it is the bestest Cobra tool I own.