Oil pan studs or bolts? - Page 3

DanEC · #1 (**permalink**) 01-13-2016, 10:30 AM

I've patterned and cut some pan reinforcements for a BB Chev in the past - but just for the corner locations. Doing the whole rail with what I have in the garage would be a big job. It would be nice if someone with a CNC machine or something could work up some patterns for some typical pans and market them.

Mickmate - are you out there??

lippy · #2 (**permalink**) 01-13-2016, 01:29 PM

I think I'll remove the pan, get some stainless bar, maybe 3/8" or 1/2" wide by 3/16" thick, lay it out over the pan rail, weld the joints, and drill. I don't think it would take me more than 2 hours.

Bernica · #3 (**permalink**) 01-13-2016, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lippy

I don't think it would take me more than 2 hours.

Well, you are way faster than I would be!

Send some pics if you do it.

Detroit Bill · #4 (**permalink**) 01-13-2016, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lippy

I think I'll remove the pan, get some stainless bar, maybe 3/8" or 1/2" wide by 3/16" thick, lay it out over the pan rail, weld the joints, and drill. I don't think it would take me more than 2 hours.

Any excuse to get that welder out!

lippy · #5 (**permalink**) 01-13-2016, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

Any excuse to get that welder out!

Absolutely. I'm a welding fool!

Bernica · #6 (**permalink**) 01-13-2016, 02:18 PM

Always show your work.

DanEC · #7 (**permalink**) 01-13-2016, 03:11 PM

Yes please - show us what you come up with.

Good luck.

lippy · #8 (**permalink**) 01-13-2016, 04:11 PM

May take me a couple of weeks, but you'll see it.

patrickt · #9 (**permalink**) 01-13-2016, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lippy

May take me a couple of weeks, but you'll see it.

I think you should buy a seasoned iron block, then carefully disassemble your existing engine and transfer each part to the new iron block. That's the only hope you have for dealing with your leaks. Either that, or just put pie tins under the drips.

cobrakiwi · #10 (**permalink**) 01-13-2016, 06:03 PM

Here are a few pictures of what we came up with to try and help with the leaking oil pans.

601 HP HiTech Mod's

DanEC · #11 (**permalink**) 01-13-2016, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

Here are a few pictures of what we came up with to try and help with the leaking oil pans.

601 HP HiTech Mod's

Post 40 in the referenced thread for the time limited. I bet that does cinch the pan gasket up tight - very impressive.

cycleguy55 · #12 (**permalink**) 01-14-2016, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanEC

Post 40 in the referenced thread for the time limited. I bet that does cinch the pan gasket up tight - very impressive.

Yes, VERY impressive. I have a pan from Armando's and I like it, but the pan rails could use something like that as they'd bend or distort far too easily without similar reinforcement.

DanEC · #13 (**permalink**) 01-20-2016, 06:56 AM

Wow - that's nice work Lippy. Shouldn't show too many pictures of those as you will start getting inquiries to produce them. FWIW - I think studs are the way to go, especially with an aluminum block. Do they have an allen screw recess or screw driver slot to help tighten them? I can't see what a little blue locktite would hurt to keep them tight to the block. But then the tensioning by the nut is taken up in the stud and there's less risk of galling and stressing the block threads by the combined action of tensioning and friction when tightening everything down. Maybe an ME can address that better than this aging CE.

lippy · #14 (**permalink**) 01-20-2016, 08:31 AM

Well, I'm an aging ME so I don't remember most of this anyway. The Canton studs have an Allen end but they are all coarse thread and don't have a shoulder. The ARPs have a shoulder so they can be snugged into the block, and they are fine thread on top, but they don't have an Allen hole. Instead, they have a nose so the nut starts easier. I guess you can double nut them if you need to take them out.

They don't make a stud kit for FEs and the bolts they have for FEs are too short if you use a reinforcement. But the Pontiac/Mopar kit works. ARP 200-1901 and its variants for 6/12 point stainless/oxide. While these seem expensive at $70 for the kit, I priced out McMaster-Carr and the studs and nuts were more expensive, not the ideal size, and not as strong. So not a bad deal.

lippy · #15 (**permalink**) 04-27-2016, 03:14 PM

Update: I got the engine back together and the pan on. I used a new set of Canton studs with the rail shown above. This way I was able to put more torque on the studs (about 13 ft-lb), hopefully stretching them enough so they don't come loose. The method I used was to first glue the gaskets to the windage tray and then use The Right Stuff to attach that assembly to the block, using the rail as a clamp. It made the whole process easier, as I could let that dry, then take the rail and nuts off, put the pan itself on as a last step, and tighten down with the rail. This way, I was in far less of a rush to get everything together before The Right Stuff set up, which is quick.

I've put about 100 miles on the car since I put on the new gaskets and studs. No leaks so far. But every time I retorque it, which has been I think 3-4 times now, the nuts need about 1/8 turn. I should be past the gasket compression phase by now. Anyone have an idea what might be going on? I'm worried that as soon as I stop tightening them, It'll start to leak.

patrickt · #16 (**permalink**) 04-27-2016, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lippy

But every time I retorque it, which has been I think 3-4 times now, the nuts need about 1/8 turn. I should be past the gasket compression phase by now. Anyone have an idea what might be going on? I'm worried that as soon as I stop tightening them, It'll start to leak.

No chance the studs are backing out?

Bernica · #17 (**permalink**) 04-27-2016, 03:51 PM

Any chance of heat cooking and shrinking things a little? "Snug" seems to work, but over tightening over time doesn't seem to....
If it's not leaking, I wouldn't touch it!
My 2 c...

lippy · #18 (**permalink**) 04-27-2016, 04:04 PM

I don't think the studs are backing out, but if they are looser once again I may pull out a few and add Loctite.

DanEC · #19 (**permalink**) 04-27-2016, 04:23 PM

I've noticed that pattern with oil pan, transmission pan and valve cover gaskets - I assume the gaskets are compressing and losing their elastic compressibility under engine heat. In this day and age you would think they would have some miracle polymer that would not do this.

Bernica · #20 (**permalink**) 04-27-2016, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanEC

I've noticed that pattern with oil pan, transmission pan and valve cover gaskets - I assume the gaskets are compressing and losing their elastic compressibility under engine heat. In this day and age you would think they would have some miracle polymer that would not do this.

Oh, there's some nasty industrial / aerospace stuff out there that hasn't quite met all requirements for consumer use. Some are amazing and some are just plain over the top! Like... once you seal it, forget it unless you want to use hard core methods to take it apart.