A.C. Cars Ltd. looking for info

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

After days of looking over the OP's pictures (thanks Larry), my conclusion is as follows:

Kimmin's (sp) body and frame


Not ever legally imported to Canada, but in Canada just the same, rumors of one that was brought over the border supposedly in a truck filled with snow blowers back in the mid to late 90's have been quietly floating around, but have never been substantiated, could this be that chassis?

Regardless, COB 0666 or COB 666 is an invalid/false/fake/illegally stamped chassis number and by someone doing so, risks the confiscation and disposal of said chassis by TransCanada and/or it's judicial arm.

OP's major problem is that there is no MSO/MCO, therefore he will not be able to legally explain it's lineage or prove it's actual age to TransCanada. If there is a MSO/MCO, then OP has a little more disclosure/explaining to do, past his "amnesia" as to how he came upon the chassis/body years ago, and just now was able to secure it in his garage again. No offense, but I can remember 95% of the 300+ cars that have come through my personal collection over the years, and I'm the guy with ADHD.


Bill S.

Right! This is not calling anyone out then?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

Right! This is not calling anyone out then?

Originally Posted by adv-ent

Mr olddog and Mrmustang, I truly appreciate your time and others on this thread but what I still don't understand is why there is so much talk of fraud and deceit and now playing with dynamite? I have never tried to pass this off as anything rare or try to say it is something that it is not, if I was trying to defraud as you put it I wouldn't have put it on this site in the first place. I don't understand why it makes a difference if you think I am honest or not, you can't possibly know either way so what ever you think of me personally doesn't matter to this thread. I started this thread because I know nothing of aluminum cars no mater who makes them, my own car is a fiberglass replica, although it is a very high end built car I still have nothing to compare.
Fraud, dynamite deceit? I have no idea what you want from me and what I can do to make you believe all I was looking for is help on identifying the manufacturer so very early on in this thread it was established that it couldn't be a AC car so what is it then, that's what we are looking for. It doesn't really matter why or who put such an obvious fake COB number does it because everybody seems to know there is no such thing so lets move on. There are absolutely on other stamps on the car other than what has already been mentioned.
Thanks again for all the members help on this thread.
BK

How you interpret Bill's words is your interpretation, it's certainly not mine. Bill is trying to help and he calls them as he sees them. He's blunt.

Two facts are known.

1. The car is stamped with a COB number. And it's not a COB. Describe it as you will, but as long as it retains that invalid COB # it can be passed off as a fraud, maybe not with the OP, but potentially some other owner in the future. There are plenty of examples of cars with invalid COB for CSX numbers in the Registry, two owners claiming the same COB or CSX number, etc.

So as long as this Cobra retains that COB number it represents the potential for fraud. That's the bottom line.

2. No one here has been able to determine the manufacturer of origin. IMO, the workmanship is well below that of a Kirkham/CSX and the body of the Kirkham/CSX and the OP's car have obvious differences.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

How you interpret Bill's words is your interpretation, it's certainly not mine. Bill is trying to help and he calls them as he sees them. He's blunt.

Two facts are known.

1. The car is stamped with a COB number. And it's not a COB. Describe it as you will, but as long as it retains that invalid COB # it can be passed off as a fraud, maybe not with the OP, but potentially some other owner in the future. There are plenty of examples of cars with invalid COB for CSX numbers in the Registry, two owners claiming the same COB or CSX number, etc.

So as long as this Cobra retains that COB number it represents the potential for fraud. That's the bottom line.

2. No one here has been able to determine the manufacturer of origin. IMO, the workmanship is well below that of a Kirkham/CSX and the body of the Kirkham/CSX and the OP's car have obvious differences.

Can you elaborate on the obvious differences to a KMS or SA car?
Larry

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by LMH

Can you elaborate on the obvious differences to a KMS or SA car?
Larry

You mean besides the fact that there are no Kirkham serial numbers stamped anywhere on the car? And I mentioned a few differences in an earlier post.

And when you say KMS or SA car, they're for the most part the same, since Kirkham makes the bodies for SA. And actually produces almost the entire car for the 50th anniversary CSX's.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

You mean besides the fact that there are no Kirkham serial numbers stamped anywhere on the car? And I mentioned a few differences in an earlier post.

And when you say KMS or SA car, they're for the most part the same, since Kirkham makes the bodies for SA. And actually produces almost the entire car for the 50th anniversary CSX's.

You site hinges, bolts and body. Bolts are actually from the same manufacturer as the stamping on head illustrates. The hinges look some what different, I agree but so do other Kirkhams when you search through photos of them. Guessing changes were made during production periods as newer/better tooling was purchased. What are the differences in the body though?
Larry

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

How you interpret Bill's words is your interpretation, it's certainly not mine. Bill is trying to help and he calls them as he sees them. He's blunt.

Two facts are known.

1. The car is stamped with a COB number. And it's not a COB. Describe it as you will, but as long as it retains that invalid COB # it can be passed off as a fraud, maybe not with the OP, but potentially some other owner in the future. There are plenty of examples of cars with invalid COB for CSX numbers in the Registry, two owners claiming the same COB or CSX number, etc.

So as long as this Cobra retains that COB number it represents the potential for fraud. That's the bottom line.

2. No one here has been able to determine the manufacturer of origin. IMO, the workmanship is well below that of a Kirkham/CSX and the body of the Kirkham/CSX and the OP's car have obvious differences.

Its also my interpretation Bill is wrong yet again on this one, (Kimmin's built)
Yes he is blunt, help? Not what I would call it

I think there has been a few people here point out more than enough points to determine the origin of the body/frame.

Workmanship looks great, one of the better ones I have seen


Fraud? Sorry I don't see it!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

Its also my interpretation Bill is wrong yet again on this one, (Kimmin's built)
Yes he is blunt, help? Not what I would call it

I think there has been a few people here point out more than enough points to determine the origin of the body/frame.

Workmanship looks great, one of the better ones I have seen


Fraud? Sorry I don't see it!

That's hilarious because I haven't seen any evidence that would identify any manufacturer of origin. It certainly lacks any Kirkham #'s.

If it's got an AC badge with a fake COB # on it and the fake COB # is stamped on the car, then it's looking a lot like a fraud to me.

Funny how people can have two different opinions based upon very little fact.

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

That's hilarious because I haven't seen any evidence that would identify any manufacturer of origin. It certainly lacks any Kirkham #'s.

If it's got an AC badge with a fake COB # on it and the fake COB # is stamped on the car, then it's looking a lot like a fraud to me.

Funny how people can have two different opinions based upon very little fact.

Kimmin's built, Hilarious right?

Well you know what they say about opinions,

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

Kimmin's built, Hilarious right?

Well you know what they say about opinions,

Until Bill mentioned the name Kimmins, I honestly had never heard of them. I haven't seen one of their Cobras posted here.

Let's assume for the moment that the OP's car is a Kirkham, then a previous owner went through the process of eliminating any Kirkham serial/VIN numbers and then make the decision to add an AC plate and stamp COB #'s in a few places? From my side of the peanut of gallery that sounds like the beginnings of a deception to me.

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Until Bill mentioned the name Kimmins, I honestly had never heard of them. I haven't seen one of their Cobras posted here.

Let's assume for the moment that the OP's car is a Kirkham, then a previous owner went through the process of eliminating any Kirkham serial/VIN numbers and then make the decision to add an AC plate and stamp COB #'s in a few places? From my side of the peanut of gallery that sounds like the beginnings of a deception to me.

Ding, Ding, Ding,

I think you may be getting warmer!

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Until Bill mentioned the name Kimmins, I honestly had never heard of them. I haven't seen one of their Cobras posted here.

Let's assume for the moment that the OP's car is a Kirkham, then a previous owner went through the process of eliminating any Kirkham serial/VIN numbers and then make the decision to add an AC plate and stamp COB #'s in a few places? From my side of the peanut of gallery that sounds like the beginnings of a deception to me.

Kimmins was an early supplier of csx4000 aluminum bodied cars prior to Shelby getting involved with Kirkham. Just taking a quick look at the SAAC registry the other day I noticed that Kimmins bought a 289 chassis only from Kirkham. I suppose I should have checked if they purchased other chassis from Kirkham.