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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 12:33 PM
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It appears to work very nicely...nice driving! With 820 hp; very wide wheels, and large brakes...doesn't this seem to qualify for my "outlier" classification for a Cobra? A custom suspension of your own design (check!); modified braking front and rear (check!); a race-motor (check!) - well, you get the point.

Not that my 914 stands any kind of chance against such an animal (well reptile actually) - I enjoy a friendly challenge. Come on down to Roebling Road in Savannah (Road Atlanta or Barber for that matter if you would prefer) - first week in December. Whoever has the fastest five-consecutive laps pays the others registration fees. I haven't a fraction of your power, braking, or tire (heck I only run 7 & 9's). It appears to be a no lose challenge for you #3170...are you game?

Thanks for responding...it looks like quite the car.

Tony

Last edited by Cracker; 09-11-2017 at 03:09 PM..
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
With 820 hp; very wide wheels, and large brakes...doesn't this seem to qualify for my "outlier" classification for a Cobra? A custom suspension of your own design (check!); modified braking front and rear (check!); a race-motor (check!) - well, you get the point. It appears to work very nicely...nice driving!

Not that my 914 stands any kind of chance against such an animal (well reptile actually) - I enjoy a friendly challenge. Come on down to Roebling Road in Savannah (Road Atlanta or Barber for that matter if you would prefer) - first week in December. Whoever has the fastest five-consecutive laps pays the others registration fees. I haven't a fraction of your power, braking, or tire (heck I only run 7 & 9's). It appears to be a no lose challenge for you #3170...are you game?

Thanks for responding (really) it looks like quite the car.

Tony
What a great idea make a 5000 mile round trip to run against a track car on slicks with a street legal autox car!
I have two alternates for you
1. Put 200 TW street tires on your 914 and meet half way across country at and autox to see how they stack up.
2. I will be taking delivery of a more suitable track car next year and would be glad to compare it to your 914 at Circuit of the America's in Texas (about half way).

The Cobra is irreplaceable so it will not see another track day in my life time (maybe the next owner).
914's can be great track cars because they have a low polar moment and Porsche engines are very good. I raced a guy at Grattan Raceway in Michigan many years ago with my home made autox car at a Porsche club event. He had a twin plug 3.2 engine and was quite fast. I had a 4cy BDA in the autox car and lapped him. The Porsche people were all quite shocked because he was their fastest guy.

I have tested at Roebling road and there are a number of places that could cause significant damage with an off.

How about bringing out "Worlds Most Powerful Cobra"?
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 03:39 PM
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I think we just might be able to do something here...however, to even the un-level playing field a couple of ground-rules are required. First, my 914 is a simple well-behaved, street-legal floor-pan car with a stock-ish engine. I would expect the same of any Cobra you bring - breathing and spitting fire with a race engine ain't the deal - pump gas only. Anyone can bring a "ringer" to the track - not the point to our little fun game.

1) If you ARE building another Cobra for our "fun" event - lets limit the engine output to 600 crank hp. I am under that window...
2) I have a substantially smaller footprint than #3170 and this provides a nice trade-off for the Hoosiers I use (1/3+ less tire) - they are not a true slick.
3) Minimum weight = 2400 lbs (the 914 weights 2450)
4) I have never been to COTA but would be game - it will require some coordination but I would thoroughly enjoy the trip. Just an alternative, I was planning a trip to Road America (bucket list) - will you consider that as an alternative venue?

PS: Regarding my miss-quoted (as in half-quoted ) line about the "powerful Cobra" - lets be fair. Here is the original quote, "I currently own arguably the most powerful Cobra on the planet and it has an ugly 12-point cage (but oh so necessary)." It is not as brazen as it is being portrayed...eh? It is a Kaase 600-inch Boss motor wearing his engine masters winning heads - among a whole bunch of other goodies. It was solely built for a standing mile competition - not a road course.

Regarding Roebling - yes, there are a couple places that can get you in trouble but is really about as trouble free as a real track can be - agreed?

Cheers!

Tony
PM me your contact information please...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra #3170 View Post
I have two alternates for you
1. Put 200 TW street tires on your 914 and meet half way across country at and autox to see how they stack up.
2. I will be taking delivery of a more suitable track car next year and would be glad to compare it to your 914 at Circuit of the America's in Texas (about half way).

I have tested at Roebling road and there are a number of places that could cause significant damage with an off.

How about bringing out "Worlds Most Powerful Cobra"?

Last edited by Cracker; 09-11-2017 at 04:00 PM..
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 04:17 PM
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#3170 wouldn't fare well against tge majority of semi-racy hot rods of today...that does not diminish what it is and accomplished. It does, however, put the phenomenal advancement that has occurred over the last 50-years. Heck, even my old 1970 914 would outperform it...


Why all the rules? Just run the cars
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 04:57 PM
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How much racing have you done? All racing classes are rule-goverened...otherwise, Frankenstein cars with 800+ hp, big tires and brakes are brought - but not in this case due to safety and value. Build a Cobra within reasonable parameters and see which platform is best. Original suspenaion run originally to cars required - mine has torsion bars - nothing wrong with them - 1970's technology still works.

A race car with a Cobra body on top is not a Cobra...sigh.

T

Last edited by Cracker; 09-11-2017 at 04:59 PM..
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
I think we just might be able to do something here...however, to even the un-level playing field a couple of ground-rules are required. First, my 914 is a simple well-behaved, street-legal floor-pan car with a stock-ish engine. I would expect the same of any Cobra you bring - breathing and spitting fire with a race engine ain't the deal - pump gas only. Anyone can bring a "ringer" to the track - not the point to our little fun game.

1) If you ARE building another Cobra for our "fun" event - lets limit the engine output to 600 crank hp. I am under that window...
2) I have a substantially smaller footprint than #3170 and this provides a nice trade-off for the Hoosiers I use (1/3+ less tire) - they are not a true slick.
3) Minimum weight = 2400 lbs (the 914 weights 2450)
4) I have never been to COTA but would be game - it will require some coordination but I would thoroughly enjoy the trip. Just an alternative, I was planning a trip to Road America (bucket list) - will you consider that as an alternative venue?

PS: Regarding my miss-quoted (as in half-quoted ) line about the "powerful Cobra" - lets be fair. Here is the original quote, "I currently own arguably the most powerful Cobra on the planet and it has an ugly 12-point cage (but oh so necessary)." It is not as brazen as it is being portrayed...eh? It is a Kaase 600-inch Boss motor wearing his engine masters winning heads - among a whole bunch of other goodies. It was solely built for a standing mile competition - not a road course.

Regarding Roebling - yes, there are a couple places that can get you in trouble but is really about as trouble free as a real track can be - agreed?

Cheers!

Tony
PM me your contact information please...
I am not building another Cobra, one is more than enough I can see I am not getting my message across, my Cobra will not be going on another road course again no matter what the conditions.

Hoosier tires are better than most slicks even Avon's if you are talking about A6 or A7. If your car is that stock the guys in cup cars or 991 GT3's are either on street tires are cannot drive. I should be getting a 2018 Ford GT in late 2018 or early 2019 that should be a great track car to compare to your 914. I think the Cobra would beat you in an autox even if you ran Hoosiers based on your description. We have a tube frame winged 914 out here that runs Porsche club events on Hoosiers that has lost to my Cobra or barely beat it several times. There is also an LS powered 914 but I have not compared times to him. I would agree to running the GT3 on Hoosiers against your 914 at road America. Road america has so many long straits you would need a turbo or high output N/A to keep up with a 991 especially considering the PDK and aero vs a 914.
In summation; if your car is as described we can autox it against the Cobra on street tires and you on Hoosiers. we can meet at Road America and I will put my GT3 on Hoosiers and use pump gas since you say that 991 GT3's are no problem.

RE. Worlds most powerful Cobra I do not consider anything that does not go around corners a Cobra. That is a Cobra silhouette 1 mile car, not a Cobra.
That is like calling John Force's old Mustang Funny Car a Mustang. What were they thinking anyway, Cobra's have terrible aerodynamics.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanuck View Post
If I recall correctly someone bought the tooling.
Body tooling only. And only for the Goins modified bodywork as used on the touring chassis.

And yes, the JBL comp chassis car is NLA.

Dave is virtually retired and only building races parts. Like parts for the ill-fated Nissan Le-Mans effort, the gearboxes and drive systems for Danny Thompson's LSR which just went 425+ at Bonneville and replacement components for the original race parts that he built for Reynard, Gurney, etc.

I am playing a lot more golf and building a very limited production ultra light weight (24.6 lbs) mobility vehicle.

A few of my old driver friends have busted up ankles and legs and had asked for years what I could design and build to help them get around. The clincher was that my lady has MS which makes walking a difficult task and she needed something she could put in her vehicle by herself.

This LTrike was the result.

And one last thing. The JBL was not a Cobra. It just sort of looked like one.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:14 PM
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DEAL!

Lets do the PCA Club Race at Road America next Labor day - a 4-day event to boot! The "DE" arm of the event still requires all vehicles to be of Porsche marque. The only down-side is this moves away from the whole point of the original discussion - no problem here. It will be a pleasure to share the track with you nonetheless...

Regarding Cobra's going around corners (only); does "Dragon Snake #3198" ring a bell?

Tony

991 GT3, Hoosiers, Pump Gas
vs
914R, Hoosiers, Pump Gas

Its on!!!

Last edited by Cracker; 09-11-2017 at 05:20 PM..
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
How much racing have you done? All racing classes are rule-goverened...otherwise, Frankenstein cars with 800+ hp, big tires and brakes are brought - but not in this case due to safety and value. Build a Cobra within reasonable parameters and see which platform is best. Original suspenaion run originally to cars required - mine has torsion bars - nothing wrong with them - 1970's technology still works.

A race car with a Cobra body on top is not a Cobra...sigh.

T

What are you going on about?
You piped up and claimed your old 914 could out preform 3170, no? (I think not by the way)
Then you start in on rules this change that etc, wtf!
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 06:13 PM
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I would be happy to run the teener against #3170 but he has made it abundantly clear that will not happen. We have a back-up plan now at a great track too - he claims the GT3 is just a tad slower than the Cobra. So there is some basis of comparison.

Pipe-up to him about the car change - not me. I did not change cars...

Tony

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobrakiwi View Post
What are you going on about?
You piped up and claimed your old 914 could out preform 3170, no? (I think not by the way)
Then you start in on rules this change that etc, wtf!

Last edited by Cracker; 09-11-2017 at 06:16 PM..
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 06:27 PM
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I would be happy to run the teener against #3170 but he has made it abundantly clear that will not happen. We have a back-up plan now at a great track too - he claims the GT3 is just a tad slower than the Cobra. So there is some basis of comparison.

Pipe-up to him about the car change - not me. I did not change cars...

Tony
Sorry can't do it, i have to much respect for Bruce.

But i do understand why he may not be interested in risking 3170.

You may have dodged that one!

All good fun!!
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:34 PM
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Yes it is. Also in fairness to Bruce - he never changed cars, he just never entered it! Although my car does run its original suspension - it is also the fastest known 914 in the world. I'll be looking forward to spanking a new GT3!

Tony

Last edited by Cracker; 09-11-2017 at 06:37 PM..
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 06:36 PM
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You guy's should plan on staying with me at my house in Gurnee Il. And we can have a ball bench racing and going up to Road America.....

BTW......In all my racing years.....I always said "it's not the car.....it's the lap times" that make the combination of car and driver and preparation.....

There's a difference in driving a Race car and being a Racer.....that's when you stop looking at the gauges and start driving......

Bruce/#3170.....Tony/914LS I really enjoyed your discussion....Thank You....Morris....
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:45 PM
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Yes it is. Also in fairness to Bruce - he never changed cars, he just never entered it! Although my car does run its original suspension - it is also the fastest known 914 in the world. I'll be looking forward to spanking a new GT3!

Tony
Super cool Man!
You have the fastest 914, and the most powerful cobra in the worldNice!

Do you like to go fishing?
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:05 PM
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Its been too many years my friend...I'll definitely get by and visit when we come through again! Are you still in the oil business? Give me a call - I left a message recently on the home line...

PS: You trying to give away secrets big guy???

Tony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris View Post
You guy's should plan on staying with me at my house in Gurnee Il. And we can have a ball bench racing and going up to Road America.....

BTW......In all my racing years.....I always said "it's not the car.....it's the lap times" that make the combination of car and driver and preparation.....

There's a difference in driving a Race car and being a Racer.....that's when you stop looking at the gauges and start driving......

Bruce/#3170.....Tony/914LS I really enjoyed your discussion....Thank You....Morris....
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:10 PM
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Wow. Rough company - no respect shown this way I see. I can assure you my claims are not fish-tales...

All the best.

Tony

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Super cool Man!
You have the fastest 914, and the most powerful cobra in the worldNice!

Do you like to go fishing?
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:21 PM
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Wow. Rough company - no respect shown this way I see. I can assure you my claims are not fish-tales...

All the best.

Tony
All the best to you as well, just having a little fun
I still don't think you have the car to go around that 3170 or that kmp 259.:
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:34 PM
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I realize some of you like to stir-the-pot; I have been known to do the same, God knows. Just for clarification in regards to my first post...I assumed the original motor/drivetrain was in #3170 when I made that comment. I mean, who the hell races an original car...puts a full-blown race motor in it? I guess Bruce does! Either way, that car is so far away from how it was built originally, at least fundamentally, it falls under the "outlier classification" I have mentioned several times before.

Now if Bruce is actually claiming his GT3 is even close to the Cobra's performance than it will be a good (maybe great) time. I guarantee you we'll be sipping beers and telling stories before the weekend is over. I have honestly been trying to get to RA for the last couple years - this little fun contest might just provide the impetus needed to get there next year.

Have you ever seen KMP259 in person? Morris has done an amazing job but it does not qualify for being anything close to an original competition Cobra of the 60's! Nothing.

PS: History will show here that I do not lose challenges...have you acquired a taste of your own words?

Tony

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobrakiwi View Post
I still don't think you have the car to go around that 3170 or that kmp 259.:
A functional high-powered Cobra - one of a kind motor from Kaase for this application...


Bruce's on-track competition...good luck Sir!


No less spartan than a competition Cobra...but a hell of allot more comfortable.
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Last edited by Cracker; 09-11-2017 at 07:55 PM..
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
I realize some of you like to stir-the-pot; I have been known to do the same, God knows. Just for clarification in regards to my first post...I assumed the original motor/drivetrain was in #3170 when I made that comment. I mean, who the hell races an original car...puts a full-blown race motor in it? I guess Bruce does! Either way, that car is so far away from how it was built originally, at least fundamentally, it falls under the "outlier classification" I have mentioned several times before.

Now if Bruce is actually claiming his GT3 is even close to the Cobra's performance than it will be a good (maybe great) time. I guarantee you we'll be sipping beers and telling stories before the weekend is over. I have honestly been trying to get to RA for the last couple years - this little fun contest might just provide the impetus needed to get there next year.

Have you ever seen KMP259 in person? Morris has done an amazing job but it does not qualify for being anything close to an original competition Cobra of the 60's! Nothing.

PS: History will show here that I do not lose challenges...have you acquired a taste of your own words?

Tony



A functional high-powered Cobra - one of a kind motor from Kaase for this application...


Bruce's on-track competition...good luck Sir!


Let me guess, your 914 would run rings around these boys as well right!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4XVEXo4-VSk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ibeg58gRLD8

Wow that 914 looks like it just rolled of the show room floor!
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:57 PM
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Yep. It sure would...

You need to be more detailed...read the posts, the words, the claims. LOL symbols lose there affect when not backed up with facts. Just sayin'...

BTW: What is your ride(s)? Curious.

T

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobrakiwi View Post
Let me guess, your 914 would run rings around these boys as well right!

No more modified than Morris creation...agree?

Last edited by Cracker; 09-11-2017 at 08:02 PM..
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