New Cobra buyer - Questions - Driving Them...

[AdamIsAdam]

Thanks. Yea, this makes sense. It's funny, because I was trying to compare the overall quality and driving feel of the Superformance to the Factory Five to see if I thought it was worth the difference in cost.

The car drove fine, felt underwhelming in terms of power surprisingly, even though it ran well (no clutch slipping or anything like that, just not "Cobra" strong). The clutch was stiff obviously. The interior under the dash was a little bit of a wiring mess, the panel above my knees was loose. The car didn't start without a jump even though it was cranking. And then took a while to fill the carb bowls and fire. But once on, ran ok, especially for a car that sat so long.

Oh but the wiper WASHER worked! LOL. That was funny when the broker hit that switch by accident. Everything worked as far as I could tell.

Overall, I didn't see it being worth $65k vs the $45k or so I can spend for a similar FFR. So that's sort of my dilemma. Is a Superformance or ERA worth a $15-25k price difference over a well built Factory Five? That's over 40% more money to buy. How will depreciation affect both? Enough to get back (or not lose) the purchase price? Meaning, if I compare spending $65k vs $45k car in 5 years, what's the ROI on both?

I'm looking at one FFR locally that was fully built by the FFR factory, so it's professionally built and that can be documented. If I got it for $45k, is that a smarter buy than a $65k Superformance?

Again, I am fully aware that this is a hobby and not my 401k. We are all on the same page there. I just want to make the above comparison and welcome input from those who have been in this market longer than I.

Thanks!

[MKS427]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

Thanks.

The car drove fine, felt underwhelming in terms of power surprisingly

I'm looking at one FFR locally that was fully built by the FFR factory, so it's professionally built and that can be documented. If I got it for $45k, is that a smarter buy than a $65k Superformance?

Thanks!

The smarter buy can only be determined through hindsight. You might look at which one you know you will be happy with, and hope you don't end up upside down in the end. You have to determine, if you compromise, will you be happy with what you have?

The 350 horse 351W is a budget motor and the reason for the underwhelming performance. Given the engine, it may not sell for 65K, but no guarantees. You may ask how low they are willing to go, if it's your first choice. Good news is, a 550-580 hp 427 Dart will bolt right in, but you're spending GOOD money to upgrade. You could upgrade the 351W to a 408 stroker, 500-550 (budget-high end) hp, a great cost effective alternative. Some people will build a 427 stroker in a 351W, but that is something I would not recommend.

Does the FFR have a Coyote? I've heard good things, but no first hand experience.

Good luck

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

Is a Superformance or ERA worth a $15-25k price difference over a well built Factory Five?

A lot of people can't visually recognize the difference between a FFR, SPF, or an ERA. To them, there would be no difference, and that's fine. To others, the difference is marked. The older FFRs have a very pronounced posterior, SPFs have their own eccentricities, ERAs have rectangular frames (instead of round ones). Some actually prefer the differences, others don't. The hips, fenders, and stances of the three cars are totally different but, if you can't see them, then it doesn't matter. If all three were parked side by side, almost anyone could spot some of the obvious differences, but not unless they were side by side. Some of the big differences that might jump out are the curves of the body itself, some of the smaller differences are things like the direction of the wipers, whether the pedals are floor mounted, the angle of the radiator, the angle of the windshield, etc. From a performance perspective, there are plenty of track quality FFR builds out there that will run circles around my FE powered ERA. But if you don't know what an FE is, or why it's important, then it doesn't matter. When it comes to performance, if the car "wows you," then that's what you want -- and it doesn't matter what's under the hood or what the car looks like. Would you pay an extra five grand for 6 pin drive hubs that you can't even see? How about an outboard braked IRS rear? An extra grand for a reverse rotating Smiths speedo? What about fitted side curtains? If you can't spot the differences, or if they don't matter to you, then you shouldn't pay for them.

[AdamIsAdam]

Originally Posted by patrickt

A lot of people can't visually recognize the difference between a FFR, SPF, or an ERA. To them, there would be no difference, and that's fine. To others, the difference is marked. The older FFRs have a very pronounced posterior, SPFs have their own eccentricities, ERAs have rectangular frames (instead of round ones). Some actually prefer the differences, others don't. The hips, fenders, and stances of the three cars are totally different but, if you can't see them, then it doesn't matter. If all three were parked side by side, almost anyone could spot some of the obvious differences, but not unless they were side by side. Some of the big differences that might jump out are the curves of the body itself, some of the smaller differences are things like the direction of the wipers, whether the pedals are floor mounted, the angle of the radiator, the angle of the windshield, etc. From a performance perspective, there are plenty of track quality FFR builds out there that will run circles around my FE powered ERA. But if you don't know what an FE is, or why it's important, then it doesn't matter. When it comes to performance, if the car "wows you," then that's what you want -- and it doesn't matter what's under the hood or what the car looks like. Would you pay an extra five grand for 6 pin drive hubs that you can't even see? How about an outboard braked IRS rear? An extra grand for a reverse rotating Smiths speedo? What about fitted side curtains? If you can't spot the differences, or if they don't matter to you, then you shouldn't pay for them.

Excellent reply. I did see, learn, figure out many of those factors. I weighed them all, plus one more not mentioned: safety inherent in the design of each car.

From what I can tell, FFR's frame in the MKIV is superior here, with front and rear crumple zones, plus that new X bracing on the side for some side impact protection. Something seemingly 100% absent on most other frames I've seen that are boxed and you basically sit atop them.

The MKIV did improve the rear end looks, as you indicated. I like it but it did take me a while to learn to spot the difference.

pin drive and true spinners are VERY cool IMO, as is the reverse sweep speedo and other touches.

As you can tell, I'm leaning towards finding a well built FFR. To me, what Superformance has going for it, is the consistency of a factory build (and ERA's built at ERA).

See where i'm leaning?

[patrickt]

Regarding safety, there pretty much isn't any. They're like motorcycles. The biggest danger on these cars is whacking your head on the roll bar -- hard. BFT to the head is what has killed more than a couple guys on this forum. In fact, about three years ago we had a guy showing off his Cobra in the country club parking lot. He slid in to the curb, hit his head against the roll bar, and died on the way to the hospital. The car barely had a mark on it. All in the country club parking lot. If you can touch your head to the roll bar, then you'd be smart to pad it.

[g8rnbft]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

Thanks. Yea, this makes sense. It's funny, because I was trying to compare the overall quality and driving feel of the Superformance to the Factory Five to see if I thought it was worth the difference in cost.

The car drove fine, felt underwhelming in terms of power surprisingly, even though it ran well (no clutch slipping or anything like that, just not "Cobra" strong). The clutch was stiff obviously. The interior under the dash was a little bit of a wiring mess, the panel above my knees was loose. The car didn't start without a jump even though it was cranking. And then took a while to fill the carb bowls and fire. But once on, ran ok, especially for a car that sat so long.

Oh but the wiper WASHER worked! LOL. That was funny when the broker hit that switch by accident. Everything worked as far as I could tell.

Overall, I didn't see it being worth $65k vs the $45k or so I can spend for a similar FFR. So that's sort of my dilemma. Is a Superformance or ERA worth a $15-25k price difference over a well built Factory Five? That's over 40% more money to buy. How will depreciation affect both? Enough to get back (or not lose) the purchase price? Meaning, if I compare spending $65k vs $45k car in 5 years, what's the ROI on both?

I'm looking at one FFR locally that was fully built by the FFR factory, so it's professionally built and that can be documented. If I got it for $45k, is that a smarter buy than a $65k Superformance?

Again, I am fully aware that this is a hobby and not my 401k. We are all on the same page there. I just want to make the above comparison and welcome input from those who have been in this market longer than I.

Thanks!

FFR owner here - and I seriously doubt documentation of a FFR built car. It just doesn't happen. Not even a "roller" - much less a "driver".

[AdamIsAdam]

Originally Posted by g8rnbft

FFR owner here - and I seriously doubt documentation of a FFR built car. It just doesn't happen. Not even a "roller" - much less a "driver".

It's true. They built the car for a charity auction. After seeing the car, I spoke with Tony Zullo at FFR personally to confirm this, since he is the one who actually built the car. He said they build it in the factory first, then take it apart, ship it to TN to put it back together again on the golf course with the FedEx pilots, to be auctioned off for charity. (I presume they shipped it via FedEx LOL)

I have tons of proof, but how about this for proof:
https://youtu.be/xWj7I4Q3ReU

At 1:40 you can see the car in question.

[g8rnbft]

Ask FFR what VIN # is on the MSO. FFR does not meet Federal Standards to market "automobiles".

But - have it your way. Don't mean to be argumentative on the issue, just wanted you to not be hoodwinked by an unscrupulous seller.

[MKS427]

Originally Posted by g8rnbft

Ask FFR what VIN # is on the MSO. FFR does not meet Federal Standards to market "automobiles".

But - have it your way. Don't mean to be argumentative on the issue, just wanted you to not be hoodwinked by an unscrupulous seller.

The law changed a couple of years ago, so FFR may now qualify to do up to 300 or 350 complete cars per year now. However, they may decline due to liability issues. Regardless, companies that sell "rollers" have had a work around in place for quite some time.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by MKS427

The law changed a couple of years ago, so FFR may now qualify to do up to 300 or 350 complete cars per year now. However, they may decline due to liability issues. Regardless, companies that sell "rollers" have had a work around in place for quite some time.

Yes, the legislation was passed, but it was 2015. It's still not in effect, and SEMA had to file a lawsuit late last year against the DOT in California to get things moving.

Read more here: https://www.rcnmag.com/news/nhtsa-is...sed-rulemaking

Bottom line: As of right now no manufacturer is permitted to sell complete cars - though hopefully that will change soon. It will soon be open for public comment, and there's information in the linked article on how to do that.

[AdamIsAdam]

Originally Posted by g8rnbft

FFR owner here - and I seriously doubt documentation of a FFR built car. It just doesn't happen. Not even a "roller" - much less a "driver".

BTW, how do you like your FFR? Any tips/suggestions for me as I shop for one?

[g8rnbft]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

BTW, how do you like your FFR? Any tips/suggestions for me as I shop for one?

I love it - have 30,000 miles on it in four years. Pushing right at 400 hp out of a stroked (347) 302.

I was at Daytona Continental race the first time Shelby showed up with Cobras! Only took me 50 years to get mine.

I am available to discuss anytime - shoot me a PM!